Other[Music][Music][Music]welcome everybody and uhwelcome everybody and uhwelcome everybody and uh special thanks to monish for being partspecial thanks to monish for being partspecial thanks to monish for being part of this uh conversation and of courseof this uh conversation and of courseof this uh conversation and of course manish needs no introduction maybe hemanish needs no introduction maybe hemanish needs no introduction maybe he can introduce me insteadcan introduce me insteadcan introduce me instead i thought i'll kind of structure this ini thought i'll kind of structure this ini thought i'll kind of structure this in three parts really the first i i justthree parts really the first i i justthree parts really the first i i just you know it's not just me who's veryyou know it's not just me who's veryyou know it's not just me who's very impressed with your dakshna story warrenimpressed with your dakshna story warrenimpressed with your dakshna story warren buffett wrote a letter saying that hebuffett wrote a letter saying that hebuffett wrote a letter saying that he wants to benchmarkwants to benchmarkwants to benchmark his annual reports with the dakshna andhis annual reports with the dakshna andhis annual reports with the dakshna and your report soyour report soyour report so maybe if you can start a bit with yourmaybe if you can start a bit with yourmaybe if you can start a bit with your dakshina journey just you know maybedakshina journey just you know maybedakshina journey just you know maybe those of you not seen your videosthose of you not seen your videosthose of you not seen your videos and and the website i would highlyand and the website i would highlyand and the website i would highly encourage everybody toencourage everybody toencourage everybody to take a look at the incredible work thattake a look at the incredible work thattake a look at the incredible work that uh manish has done with dakshina and iuh manish has done with dakshina and iuh manish has done with dakshina and i think that's kind ofthink that's kind ofthink that's kind of very similar to his investmentvery similar to his investmentvery similar to his investment philosophy which is very very longphilosophy which is very very longphilosophy which is very very long gestation period but kind of super supergestation period but kind of super supergestation period but kind of super super massive returns over the long term and
Questionermassive returns over the long term and you know maybe we can start with that you know maybe we can start with that you know maybe we can start with that then maybe we can move to you know the then maybe we can move to you know the then maybe we can move to you know the regulatory changes regulatory changes regulatory changes the tax laws etc a little bit on the the tax laws etc a little bit on the the tax laws etc a little bit on the regulatory side and then we'll come to regulatory side and then we'll come to regulatory side and then we'll come to uh monitious investment philosophies uh monitious investment philosophies uh monitious investment philosophies and uh because and uh because and uh because we'll end with kind of uh some q and a we'll end with kind of uh some q and a we'll end with kind of uh some q and a depending on how much time we have so depending on how much time we have so depending on how much time we have so manish maybe we can start a little bit manish maybe we can start a little bit manish maybe we can start a little bit with your dakshina story
Othersure so first of all sandeep it's a pleasure honor to of all sandeep it's a pleasure honor to of all sandeep it's a pleasure honor to be here with you and all the listeners i be here with you and all the listeners i be here with you and all the listeners i think it's wonderful first time i'm on think it's wonderful first time i'm on think it's wonderful first time i'm on twitter spaces so that's good growth twitter spaces so that's good growth twitter spaces so that's good growth opportunity for me yeah i think i think opportunity for me yeah i think i think opportunity for me yeah i think i think the story with dakshina actually is one the story with dakshina actually is one the story with dakshina actually is one where where where i did not have a choice basically if you i did not have a choice basically if you i did not have a choice basically if you are even a slightly above average are even a slightly above average are even a slightly above average investor and you spend less than you investor and you spend less than you investor and you spend less than you earn then just the nature of compounding earn then just the nature of compounding earn then just the nature of compounding and and and long runway and so on will basically
Questionerlong runway and so on will basically put you in a situation where in the end you will have more assets than you can consume in a lifetime and which is a good problem so when you end up with more assets than you can consume you really have only two choices of what you can do with those assets like my my dad used to say that no one has succeeded in even taking a pin with them when they leave planet earth and so the only two choices you have is you can either give it to your gene pool or you can you know somehow recycle it back to society or some combination of the two large large inner inheritances to your kids and relatives actually do more harm than good uh you know like buffett says that uh if your jesse owens son you know the sprinter you should be allowed to start 100 meter dashes at the 40 meter line he said it's okay to start at the 10 meter line
Otherstart at the 10 meter line but not at the 40 meter line so when you uh for us you know for us the when you uh for us you know for us the when you uh for us you know for us the journey has been really exciting because we started from zero and the because we started from zero and the because we started from zero and the process of you know building and such is process of you know building and such is process of you know building and such is what makes life exciting if you you know what makes life exciting if you you know what makes life exciting if you you know bestow very large amounts on your bestow very large amounts on your bestow very large amounts on your on your children in effect you're on your children in effect you're on your children in effect you're putting them in a welfare state you know putting them in a welfare state you know putting them in a welfare state you know they basically are like kind of a iv they basically are like kind of a iv they basically are like kind of a iv drip into their arms and it's going to drip into their arms and it's going to drip into their arms and it's going to significantly significantly significantly sub optimize what sub optimize what sub optimize what potential they could achieve in their potential they could achieve in their potential they could achieve in their lives so basically there's there's more lives so basically there's there's more lives so basically there's there's more harm that happens if you think about it harm that happens if you think about it harm that happens if you think about it from a gene pool point of view so then from a gene pool point of view so then from a gene pool point of view so then then you get left with the other option then you get left with the other option then you get left with the other option which is which is which is give it back to society and uh giving it give it back to society and uh giving it give it back to society and uh giving it back to society has some challenges so back to society has some challenges so back to society has some challenges so the the the the challenge is that the kinds of the challenge is that the kinds of the challenge is that the kinds of problems problems problems you have to deal with if you're trying you have to deal with if you're trying
Otheryou have to deal with if you're trying tototo help humanity are things like povertyhelp humanity are things like povertyhelp humanity are things like poverty education healthcareeducation healthcareeducation healthcare environment each of these uh and youenvironment each of these uh and youenvironment each of these uh and you know several others but each of theseknow several others but each of theseknow several others but each of these are very tough nutsare very tough nutsare very tough nuts to crackto crackto crack and there's been a lot of well-meaningand there's been a lot of well-meaningand there's been a lot of well-meaning people in the past and there's been youpeople in the past and there's been youpeople in the past and there's been you know trillions of dollars by governmentsknow trillions of dollars by governmentsknow trillions of dollars by governments who have gone on to attack thesewho have gone on to attack thesewho have gone on to attack these problems andproblems andproblems and some some of some of it has workedsome some of some of it has workedsome some of some of it has worked a lot of it has not workeda lot of it has not workeda lot of it has not worked so in investing what happens is that weso in investing what happens is that weso in investing what happens is that we get to choose our spots we get to chooseget to choose our spots we get to chooseget to choose our spots we get to choose which company we want to invest inwhich company we want to invest inwhich company we want to invest in and we can let 99 of the or 99.9 of theand we can let 99 of the or 99.9 of theand we can let 99 of the or 99.9 of the kind of marketkind of marketkind of market go by the wayside like not interestedgo by the wayside like not interestedgo by the wayside like not interested but when you're looking at philanthropybut when you're looking at philanthropybut when you're looking at philanthropy or you know helping society you areor you know helping society you areor you know helping society you are forced to confrontforced to confrontforced to confront these very tough problemsthese very tough problemsthese very tough problems and so the rules the rules becomeand so the rules the rules becomeand so the rules the rules become different so one of the things that idifferent so one of the things that idifferent so one of the things that i realized is that if i were to wait till
Otherrealized is that if i were to wait till i was 70 or 80 years old to try to recycle assets or whatever else basically i would have very little energy left and my only choice would be to just try to check to somebody and so i uh dakshina actually started when i was 42 years old i think i'm now 42 years old i think i'm now going to be 58 in a couple of weeks and my intent was that or my my thinking was that trying to do work in india while hanging out in shorts in california is a recipe for disaster so i actually thought that dakshina will probably have like 10 years of spinning its wheels getting ripped off by a lot of people uh etc and then maybe after 10 years after having paid tuition bill we would actually understand what to do so i wanted to give enough time for that learning and what ended up happening actually with dakshina is that we got traction right away we got traction in a few
Otherright away we got traction in a few weeks and there were a few people who ripped us off but nothing nothing material and we were able to obviously you know eliminate those entities whatever from our from our universe so uh basically uh you know the idea is that we don't really have a choice here and what i wanted to do with dakshina is that if i'm going to give money away i do care about the fact that the money is utilized effectively and that's like i said it's very hard to do in these areas and so the rules for non-profits become different one of the important rules you have to follow is you'll be very willing to fail so in investing we go low risk high return we try to minimize risk in philanthropy you have to go high risk high return like buffett would say you in baseball terms you should swing for the fences don't go for singles and if you swing
Otherdon't go for singles and if you swing for the fence and you miss it's okay you know keep swinging for the fence and so basically you have to be bold and you have to be willing to completely fail and that's the only way to really move the needle and so basically the way uh dakshina was set up is was set up with the idea that every year a certain amount of money and i i followed buffett's formula you know he gives away five percent of his berkshire shares every year to charity and berkshire's value goes up by more than five percent a year so his net worth keeps going up and the amount given every year keeps going up but he could actually live forever and wouldn't really run out of money so i followed something similar when i started with two percent of our assets going every year and then increasing that as the net worth grew and the idea was that that money once it
Otherand the idea was that that money once it went to dakshina i was very willing that it would disappear not get used properly whatever else but you know try to learn and improve and what i find what i find with most non-profits which is so disappointing is i actually did not want to start dakshna i wanted to find a entity that existed that i could just write checks to and when i looked 15 years ago and in the last 15 years i've looked a lot more i've come away disappointed i haven't found a single organization that really i mean there were a couple i think i got to know but they didn't really have funding issues that really thought about it in these terms or focused on the highest social returns maximizing input to output and all of that so i was just forced to go into dakshina and we ended up because we copied the model from anand kumar of super 30
Otherkumar of super 30
Otherso it was a well proven model we just scaled it and some great people showed up and uh it worked which is awesome
Otherright uh madish also if you can just spend 30 seconds on what dakshna does for the benefit of the people who don't know about the work is this you know i've seen your lectures with the students i've seen the website i've seen some other stuff that you've done so for just this kind of an introductory for those people who don't know about dakshna that would be a good uh distinct point
Otheryeah dakshina is purely focused on education that's the one area we decided to focus on uh specifically within education we have a model that gives us a very high ratio of money invested versus output generated so if you if you guys are familiar with the super 30 model anand kumar basically identifies 30 really smart poor kids in
Questioneridentifies 30 really smart poor kids in biharbiharbihar and he coaches them for a yearand he coaches them for a yearand he coaches them for a year for the iit entrance exams and then youfor the iit entrance exams and then youfor the iit entrance exams and then you knowknowknow something like 90 to 100 percent of themsomething like 90 to 100 percent of themsomething like 90 to 100 percent of them get accepted right it's very highget accepted right it's very highget accepted right it's very high acceptance rateacceptance rateacceptance rate uh versus the one or two percent thatuh versus the one or two percent thatuh versus the one or two percent that iits are taking every year out of theiits are taking every year out of theiits are taking every year out of the entire pool that's trying to get inentire pool that's trying to get inentire pool that's trying to get in and uh so we cloned we cloned anand'sand uh so we cloned we cloned anand'sand uh so we cloned we cloned anand's model and we basically scaled itmodel and we basically scaled itmodel and we basically scaled it sososo instead of taking 30 kids a year we'reinstead of taking 30 kids a year we'reinstead of taking 30 kids a year we're taking more than a thousand kids a yeartaking more than a thousand kids a yeartaking more than a thousand kids a year we arewe arewe are like between 60 and 80 percent of thelike between 60 and 80 percent of thelike between 60 and 80 percent of the kidskidskids every year get accepted to either eitherevery year get accepted to either eitherevery year get accepted to either either the iits or medical schools or aims andthe iits or medical schools or aims andthe iits or medical schools or aims and so on and basically you know these kidsso on and basically you know these kidsso on and basically you know these kids the demographic they are coming from isthe demographic they are coming from isthe demographic they are coming from is uh most of the parents are illiterateuh most of the parents are illiterateuh most of the parents are illiterate farmersfarmersfarmers laborers rural india and so on typicallaborers rural india and so on typicallaborers rural india and so on typical income family income is uh less than uhincome family income is uh less than uhincome family income is uh less than uh you know hundred dollars a month maybeyou know hundred dollars a month maybeyou know hundred dollars a month maybe you know less than five six seven
Otheryou know less than five six seven thousand rupees a month and most of the parents don't even know what iid is and we get a very large portion of the kids like i said 60 to 80 get accepted and now since we've been doing it for about 15 years we track the kids after they finish and they of course also want to be connected with us uh now a lot of the dakshina staff and faculty is our alums our alums have gone all over the world they work at all these top class companies microsoft amazon google and so on and uh many have joined the ias and you know the government and so on so they've actually uh some have quit iit and been funded by top vcs for startups and such so uh actually the uh output uh you know we we spend about twenty five hundred dollars twenty five hundred three thousand dollars per per kid over the two years there with us one or two years with us what we get out
Otherone or two years with us what we get out of it is uh quite significant because the increase in their lifetime earnings is exponentially more than that and we still haven't seen the kind of the crest of that wave i think a lot of these kids when they hit their 40s and 50s is when you know we'll probably have some billionaires in their ranks and so on so uh that's kind of what we do
Questioneryeah this is amazing work and of course they're open for donations so anybody on this chat wants to donate even a small amount it would be greatly appreciated so just moving on to the second part of the conversation is you know where we are really in terms of the markets the macro interest rates going up some regime which we've not seen for 40 years you know the tax laws are changing rapidly there's kind of global coordination so just if you can just give us a
Questionergive us a broad sense of where you think we are going in the next six months to the next maybe six years really and you know what what your take is in terms of your investment philosophy or you know given the completely changed circumstances
Todd Combsyeah so these these are questions i don't spend a lot of time thinking about trying to come up with answers because i don't think i can come up with any kind of answer that's better than anyone else what i try to spend my time on is i try to figure out whether i can understand certain businesses and i can maybe understand the trajectory of those businesses so it's it's hard enough to try to figure out just a trajectory of a given business very hard to figure out these big back row calls but every so often you run into situations where it lends itself to being able to be able to be understood and with a high
Questionerto be understood and with a high probability you can you can predict likely trajectory and so on and basically i think the the bottom line is that there are uh if you go if you go back and look at you know different businesses that have been listed for a long time and so on many of those businesses have done well regardless of what was happening in the economy or interest rates or unemployment or government policies just because they had a model and engine that transcended all that so in general i i believe that for most businesses micro uh situations things that affect the business directly are much more relevant for an investor to understand than macro considerations so so if one can figure out you know the two or three main factors that will drive the outcome of a business that's really the most important thing so right i don't i don't tend to
Questioneri don't i don't tend toi don't i don't tend to try to figure out these othertry to figure out these othertry to figure out these other questions you're asking right now so inquestions you're asking right now so inquestions you're asking right now so in fact i saw your uh comment of beingfact i saw your uh comment of beingfact i saw your uh comment of being small brain i'll come to that insmall brain i'll come to that insmall brain i'll come to that in in a few minutes just justin a few minutes just justin a few minutes just just you know i just want to i was askingyou know i just want to i was askingyou know i just want to i was asking that question given the context that youthat question given the context that youthat question given the context that you know yo i think your firstknow yo i think your firstknow yo i think your first big kind of public showing of yourbig kind of public showing of yourbig kind of public showing of your record happened after the dot-com bubblerecord happened after the dot-com bubblerecord happened after the dot-com bubble immediately after really right soimmediately after really right soimmediately after really right so nasdaq went down almost 80 percent andnasdaq went down almost 80 percent andnasdaq went down almost 80 percent and you'reyou'reyou're giving 30 35 returns every year forgiving 30 35 returns every year forgiving 30 35 returns every year for several years probably a better part ofseveral years probably a better part ofseveral years probably a better part of the decade after thatthe decade after thatthe decade after that so um are you saying that you know youso um are you saying that you know youso um are you saying that you know you had kind of really no sense of the macrohad kind of really no sense of the macrohad kind of really no sense of the macro and you really really didn't care aboutand you really really didn't care aboutand you really really didn't care about the macro at that point of time or didthe macro at that point of time or didthe macro at that point of time or did you kind of look at you know you saidyou kind of look at you know you saidyou kind of look at you know you said that you had a sense of the bubble a fewthat you had a sense of the bubble a fewthat you had a sense of the bubble a few months before the others but can youmonths before the others but can youmonths before the others but can you give us a little perspective about your
Questionergive us a little perspective about your macro sense back in 99 and 2000
Questioneryeah sometimes sometimes we get to such extremes in the market
Otherthat things become obvious i think it was it was quite obvious in 99 early 2000 that we were in a period of extreme euphoria with a lot of bubble-esque type situation in in a lot of different areas and i remember i remember like in early 2000 actually i visited microsoft headquarters i had an early investor who wanted me to come and he wanted me to introduce and introduce me to other possible microsoft next microsoft people to possibly invest with me so i made a trip to seattle and i so i made a trip to seattle and i went to went to microsoft and i was talking to a lot of these people of course in what they had seen from 1976 till 2000 was just straight non-stop upward trajectory of microsoft stock nothing else and and they continue to believe that
Todd Combsthey continue to believe that that would continue to do well and ithat would continue to do well and ithat would continue to do well and i told them thattold them thattold them that it was probably not the smartest thingit was probably not the smartest thingit was probably not the smartest thing in the world for them to havein the world for them to havein the world for them to have all their income coming from microsoftall their income coming from microsoftall their income coming from microsoft andandand 90 of their net worth in microsoft stock90 of their net worth in microsoft stock90 of their net worth in microsoft stock or somethingor somethingor something and they just looked at me like you knowand they just looked at me like you knowand they just looked at me like you know you really don't understand the companyyou really don't understand the companyyou really don't understand the company or whateveror whateveror whatever and the thing is that it was at anand the thing is that it was at anand the thing is that it was at an extreme you know microsoft's uh marketextreme you know microsoft's uh marketextreme you know microsoft's uh market cap at that time was amongst the threecap at that time was amongst the threecap at that time was amongst the three largest market caps in the world i thinklargest market caps in the world i thinklargest market caps in the world i think north of 600 billionnorth of 600 billionnorth of 600 billion and the cash flows they were generatingand the cash flows they were generatingand the cash flows they were generating were you know single-digit billions orwere you know single-digit billions orwere you know single-digit billions or something so it was justsomething so it was justsomething so it was just it was trading at like 70 80 timesit was trading at like 70 80 timesit was trading at like 70 80 times earnings or somethingearnings or somethingearnings or something not growing that much but it was a verynot growing that much but it was a verynot growing that much but it was a very good business and and i told them igood business and and i told them igood business and and i told them i think that i said the business wouldthink that i said the business wouldthink that i said the business would keep doing wellkeep doing wellkeep doing well but everything has a price andbut everything has a price andbut everything has a price and everything has a value so in in 99 2000
Othereverything has a value so in in 99 2000 it was obvious that a lot of things were very frothy you know there's a book uh there's a book your listeners may enjoy it's called uh trend watching and it was written by a guy named ron insana and he was a cnbc anchor usually cnbc anchors are not good writers but he chronicled that book just chronicles bubbles and when you read that book you'll see that bubbles are extremely common they happen all the time different asset classes different geographies they're happening all the time and the reason they happen is because humans vacillate between fear and greed so at any given time we could have big bubbles little bubbles bubbles in different areas whatever and 99 2000 was the time where there was a massive bubble in the dot com but there was also a bubble in stocks like coke and general electric and microsoft i
Questionerand general electric and microsoft i mean these companies were these companies actually had real earnings and such but even they were very stretched valuations and at the same time in 1999 2000 when this was happening a lot of very basic non-sexy businesses got really cheap so the day the nasdaq peaked i think march 9 2000 was the day that berkshire hathaway hit a multi-year low i mean literally people were selling berkshire hathaway stock and buying pets.com you know warren buffett would be on the cover of barons and they're asking what's wrong warren you know why aren't you participating that sort of thing so actually um funds did really well we started in 99 first year we were up like 70 which was through the crash and we continued to be 20 30 40 a year for the next several years and that's because i was buying things like funeral homes
Warreni was buying things like funeral homes at two times earnings and steel mills atat two times earnings and steel mills atat two times earnings and steel mills at three times earnings and that sort ofthree times earnings and that sort ofthree times earnings and that sort of thing there's very non-sexy stuff whichthing there's very non-sexy stuff whichthing there's very non-sexy stuff which waswaswas very stable and it did really wellvery stable and it did really wellvery stable and it did really well sososo there are times wethere are times wethere are times we we can clearly see these things like i iwe can clearly see these things like i iwe can clearly see these things like i i did not seedid not seedid not see the financial crisis coming i saw thethe financial crisis coming i saw thethe financial crisis coming i saw the the dot-com crashthe dot-com crashthe dot-com crash i didn't see the severity of thei didn't see the severity of thei didn't see the severity of the financial crisis coming till wasfinancial crisis coming till wasfinancial crisis coming till was well into itwell into itwell into it when you look at the current situationwhen you look at the current situationwhen you look at the current situation uh some things are obvious to meuh some things are obvious to meuh some things are obvious to me and it actually doesn't matter if i'mand it actually doesn't matter if i'mand it actually doesn't matter if i'm wrong about these things because i'm notwrong about these things because i'm notwrong about these things because i'm not you know i have no pet in this area soyou know i have no pet in this area soyou know i have no pet in this area so for examplefor examplefor example i think crypto is a bubblei think crypto is a bubblei think crypto is a bubble now whether it turns out to be a bubblenow whether it turns out to be a bubblenow whether it turns out to be a bubble or not is irrelevant because i have noor not is irrelevant because i have noor not is irrelevant because i have no longer short position in cryptolonger short position in cryptolonger short position in crypto but i i think it appears to me given thebut i i think it appears to me given thebut i i think it appears to me given the fact that bubbles are common and all offact that bubbles are common and all offact that bubbles are common and all of these bubbles they always have a kernelthese bubbles they always have a kernel
Otherthese bubbles they always have a kernel of truth at the coreof truth at the coreof truth at the core uh so crypto is a bubble we have thingsuh so crypto is a bubble we have thingsuh so crypto is a bubble we have things like gamestop in the us as is a bubble alike gamestop in the us as is a bubble alike gamestop in the us as is a bubble a amc is a bubble we don't have widespreadamc is a bubble we don't have widespreadamc is a bubble we don't have widespread bubbles todaybubbles todaybubbles today and of course we got into frothiness inand of course we got into frothiness inand of course we got into frothiness in a small part of the tech sectora small part of the tech sectora small part of the tech sector which is now corrected somewhat i'm notwhich is now corrected somewhat i'm notwhich is now corrected somewhat i'm not sure if it'ssure if it'ssure if it's corrected fully or what will happencorrected fully or what will happencorrected fully or what will happen there you know it's again i don't havethere you know it's again i don't havethere you know it's again i don't have bets in that area so not very relevantbets in that area so not very relevantbets in that area so not very relevant so i don't think the situation today isso i don't think the situation today isso i don't think the situation today is as extreme as 99 2000as extreme as 99 2000as extreme as 99 2000 but we do have areas of the market thatbut we do have areas of the market thatbut we do have areas of the market that are bubble askedare bubble askedare bubble asked andandand over time those willover time those willover time those will get back to where they need to beget back to where they need to beget back to where they need to be but i think what i think what investorsbut i think what i think what investorsbut i think what i think what investors would be better off doing iswould be better off doing iswould be better off doing is not fixating on these things and justnot fixating on these things and justnot fixating on these things and just try to focus on things that they aretry to focus on things that they aretry to focus on things that they are able to understand really well andable to understand really well andable to understand really well and sometimes when they can understandsometimes when they can understandsometimes when they can understand something really wellsomething really wellsomething really well and the pricing makes no sense then that
Questionerand the pricing makes no sense then that can be an opportunity i know you've said in your past talks but if you can tell the funeral story is so fascinating i mean i'd love for listeners to hear that maybe a shorter version of the funeral story it's very fascinating
Questioneroh yeah so you know my my first book mosaic is out of print but all the chapters in that book are pdfs they're on my blog chai with pabraise so you can go to chairwithpropriet.com and you can pull down those chapters there's a chapter on the funeral business so i'll i'll get to your question in a second but but in general funeral businesses are really really good businesses so for example we have a company in the united states called tj maxx and tj maxx has done really well probably like 20 plus percent a year for like decades and what they do is they buy out
Questionerbuy out clothing that is kind of excess and surplus from different manufacturers where you know they had a extra line they made or things didn't get sold and they buy them at very low prices and then they put them in their stores and so when you go to a tj maxx store it's not like a normal clothing store where you can find the same stuff everything it's kind of like almost like a you know like a treasure hunt where the inventory keeps shifting like sometimes they might find 100 000 jeans that were you know produced extra and they'll buy those and put them up and whatever so every time you go into the stores the kind of mix of products is different but because they are really good at this you know picking up these excess kind of things so the companies who are in the like the either the funeral business or the recycling business they do very well and
Questionerrecycling business they do very well and even if you if you look at the us as a as a whole you know for the longest time the us had a huge advantage over the rest of the world because it has a very advanced bankruptcy law system and the delaware courts and all of that and so that system which now india is putting into place important related nclt and so on what that system allowed is that companies that got into trouble you had this cleansing recycling process that was very efficient where the debt would be converted to equity or be recycled or whatever else and the company would come out the other end it would still be running and with new owners and you know kind of a new life and that rebirth process is really good so again the people in delaware those law firms and you know kirkland and alice and all of them those law firms i mean those lawyers are making
Questionerfirms i mean those lawyers are making like 10 million a year because again they were in the in the recycling and funeral business so there are many many businesses in different areas that you will find that basically end up in effect being in this funeral recycling business the specific investment i made in the early 2000s there were two roll-up companies in the u.s which had bought up thousands of funeral homes so in the us you had all these mom-and-pop funeral homes all over the place and these two companies service corp and stuart enterprises they bought up all these funeral homes they took on a lot of debt and they got very overloaded and then the music stopped so people got really concerned whether they can really manage their debt or what's going to happen they also made a bunch of bad acquisitions where their cash flow was nothing and they paid a lot and so
Questionerwas nothing and they paid a lot and so on and so what ended up happening is that these companies and again we had the dot-com bubble and all that no one wants to be in the funeral business these companies were like i think stuart enterprises was market cap was 200 million and was producing 100 million a year in cash flow and it had a billion in debt but after paying the debt service they were still producing 100 million so i said you know we can own this business for two years we get our money back basically in earnings in the next two years and then they in the next few months after i bought it they sold off the european business which was not generating any cash they got 4 500 million with that and paid down debt and in a i think less than a year or maybe 18 months it was a multi-bagger and such so that was you know one of the the lowest rate of business
Warrenone of the the lowest rate of business failures is funeral homes uh in the us because i don't know who's gonna die in st louis next year but i know how many are going to die you know that's a pretty precise number and we know they're going to die and there's like you know when you have your favorite uncle who's passed away and you need the last rights done in the u.s you know you're not going to go hunt for the low bid you just want those things done well so it's a business that actually has good economics and uh a lot of people you know 22 year olds don't aspire to go into the funeral business so it has limited competition and it has tradition you know so it works out really well
Questioneryeah manish so how how you saw that how you found this company also an interesting if you can uh interesting bit so
Questioneryeah so i i uh i subscribed to value
Questioneryeah so i i uh i subscribed to value line and value line has a different listline and value line has a different listline and value line has a different list you know like they have differentyou know like they have differentyou know like they have different screens like physical notscreens like physical notscreens like physical not electronic so one of their list is theelectronic so one of their list is theelectronic so one of their list is the companies of the lowest pescompanies of the lowest pescompanies of the lowest pes and i found these two companies withand i found these two companies withand i found these two companies with sitting at a pe of twositting at a pe of twositting at a pe of two and i had i had read a while back thatand i had i had read a while back thatand i had i had read a while back that the lowest rate of business failure isthe lowest rate of business failure isthe lowest rate of business failure is funeral home so i said it's veryfuneral home so i said it's veryfuneral home so i said it's very interestinginterestinginteresting we have these companies that are sittingwe have these companies that are sittingwe have these companies that are sitting at two times earnings they're in aat two times earnings they're in aat two times earnings they're in a business that never fails so thatbusiness that never fails so thatbusiness that never fails so that prompted me to take a look at them andprompted me to take a look at them andprompted me to take a look at them and when i looked at them i said wow this iswhen i looked at them i said wow this iswhen i looked at them i said wow this is amazing we'll go for itamazing we'll go for itamazing we'll go for it
Othergreat so i'm going to make it a littlegreat so i'm going to make it a littlegreat so i'm going to make it a little uh interestinguh interestinguh interesting so i'm going to throw five allegationsso i'm going to throw five allegationsso i'm going to throw five allegations at you asking one issue and you have toat you asking one issue and you have toat you asking one issue and you have to you have to defend yourself againstyou have to defend yourself againstyou have to defend yourself against each of these okay and again these areeach of these okay and again these areeach of these okay and again these are inserts but these are uh taken from yourinserts but these are uh taken from yourinserts but these are uh taken from your own speeches so you can
Questionerown speeches so you can pardon my front okay so the first is that you you you're quite unoriginal right you love cloning and you gave the example of mcdonald's and burger king and you know how they look for locations maybe you could talk a little bit about how being unoriginal has helped you in your investment journey
Questioneryou know i think i think uh munger actually endorses cloning quite a bit i mean he says that and i think in investing no one is smart enough to figure it all out themselves so one of the things that is a huge advantage in investing is if you can look at what other people you admire and trust have already put their money into so if i know someone is a really good investor and i can see what their portfolio is and it's already gone through one filter where they put their own money on the line that's a better place to start
Todd Combsline that's a better place to start looking for businesses than to start the list and start going with the a's and then the b's and c's and so on so we i think in investing because the data set is so large there's 50 000 stocks you need some shortcuts there's no way you can study 50 000 stocks you know entire lifetime you won't even do 30 000 stocks in a lifetime so you need shortcuts and one of the great shortcuts is to look at what great investors are doing and you know like for example in about four years ago i made my first trip to istanbul and i noticed the turkish market was many different areas of screening very cheap it had a lot of issues with macro issues whatever else was going on but i have a good friend there who is a hardcore ben graham type investor and i told him uh hey you know i like to come to istanbul and spend a week just visiting every
Questionerand spend a week just visiting every company you invested in and would you be okay with doing that he said oh it'd be a lot of so much fun let's do it so i went and i visited istanbul and that was really fascinating for me because just you know going in and looking at the the different businesses like there's a co-partner there in istanbul which also owns 49 of the of the coke bottling market in pakistan and 10 other countries so they're pretty large outside turkey but uh significant within turkey as well so they're just different businesses like that and and then my second trip he took me to this company which basically you know he was telling me the market cap is 20 million dollars and the liquidation value was like 700 million dollars and i said is it a fraud like what's going on here and he said no no there as far as i can tell they're
Questionerfar as i can tell they're straightforward honest people he had an investment in the company i couldn't find anything wrong with it and actually the liquidation value was really easy to figure out because they had a bunch of warehouses you could go to any commercial realtor and probably in the afternoon he would give you approximate prices for those properties the very prime 99 least you know amazon ikea car for dupont these are the tenants and all of that so i really really couldn't understand what is going on here but i couldn't see anything wrong and then turkey is a market where the retail is all gamblers you know the average holding period is nine days most investors are holding just for a few hours it's a dream market for value investors and i was surprised i spent seven million dollars and we ended up with one third of the company and you know it's
Questionerthird of the company and you know it's 12 million square foot of warehouse space they're the largest freight train operator in turkey largest truck street in turkey i mean i think the footprint is worth over a billion given how well they allocate capital is probably worth a billion and a half and the whole thing was going for 20 million and when we invested in turkey at that time there was a lot of macro even now there's a lot of macro problems the lira was had just collapsed from three liter to the dollar to five liters so when we invested it was five liters of the dollar now it's approaching 17 liter to the dollar so three years uh it's gone from five to 17. our investment in dollars has gone up 5x i mean lera has gone up a lot more but who cares about that so that was the situation where we focused i focused purely on the micro
Questioneri focused purely on the micro and i focused on these assets that were and i focused on these assets that were and i focused on these assets that were basically basically basically these assets have an international price these assets have an international price these assets have an international price because because because you know there's steel in there there's you know there's steel in there there's you know there's steel in there there's concrete in there there's land in there concrete in there there's land in there concrete in there there's land in there all of those things have an all of those things have an all of those things have an international price it's prime and it's international price it's prime and it's international price it's prime and it's got these long leases and all that so it got these long leases and all that so it got these long leases and all that so it was actually what i find in turkey is was actually what i find in turkey is was actually what i find in turkey is everyone and their brother has exited everyone and their brother has exited everyone and their brother has exited that market so that market so that market so i don't have much interest in looking at i don't have much interest in looking at i don't have much interest in looking at you know you know you know the u.s markets i think they're either the u.s markets i think they're either the u.s markets i think they're either fully valued or maybe overvalued etc fully valued or maybe overvalued etc fully valued or maybe overvalued etc maybe some parts are a little bit maybe some parts are a little bit maybe some parts are a little bit undervalued but if you go to a place undervalued but if you go to a place undervalued but if you go to a place like turkey like turkey like turkey and you look at the top 100 companies and you look at the top 100 companies and you look at the top 100 companies there there there i mean they are so widely mispriced i mean they are so widely mispriced i mean they are so widely mispriced because of this because of this because of this all this major uncertainty but all this major uncertainty but all this major uncertainty but when you look at things like the coke when you look at things like the coke when you look at things like the coke bottler such a resilient business i mean bottler such a resilient business i mean bottler such a resilient business i mean coca-cola company owns 20 of that and coca-cola company owns 20 of that and
Questionercoca-cola company owns 20 of that and they have this you know 50 market share in eight nine ten countries or something so that i mean like i said we want to focus on things which the world is not focused on which make sense to us and so on right
Questionerso the second charge against you is actually i think you addressed it already which is you call yourself small brain which by which you mean you look at this companies with which are undervalued but maybe you can take us into you know the journey of you know obviously you had a incredible run post the dot-com bubble and you had to be quite quite a successful run even after the uh financial crisis so maybe if you can just uh tell us a bit about how you know you address the challenge that the markets can be insane longer than you you know your your you know your ability to make profit out of these price assets so
Questionerprice assets so how do you deal with that challenge you know i mean we saw one big hedge fund go go virtually bankrupt because they shorted amc so so how do you tackle you know situations like that when you know it can continue to remain mispriced for maybe half a decade or more
Otherwell the first the first thing is that one should not use leverage so there's a few rules which i have followed for a very long time so leverage is a bad thing i think the thing is that the problem with leverage is that you may not get to play out your hand so markets can do you know because these are auction driven entities and prices gyrate i mean if you if you took a dart at every company listed on the nsc or bse and just through the dart and just look at the 52-week range of the price you know it might be you know 100 to 300 rupees or 200 to 400 rupees it's a huge swing whereas if you
Questionerrupees it's a huge swing whereas if you look at like an apartment or a flat in mumbai and you know you ask a realtor every day to give you a quote what the price is what the price of the flat is it may not change by even 10 in a year it is the nature of auction driven markets that there will be wide swings even when there's nothing going on from a macro perspective and of course the swings will get even wider if there's you know uncertainty and fear you know ukraine and all these other things going on so we we really don't know the extremes to which markets can go and so what you want to do is you want to set yourself up so you can play the next day and you're not kind of swept out or you know taken out so not having leverage is a very good rule not shorting anything is a very good rule because shorting is kind of dumb because
Questionerbecause the maximum you can make is you double the maximum you can make is you double the maximum you can make is you double your money and the your money and the your money and the maximum you can lose is bankrupt and maximum you can lose is bankrupt and maximum you can lose is bankrupt and there's no limit to what there's no limit to what there's no limit to what how a higher stock and go as we saw with how a higher stock and go as we saw with how a higher stock and go as we saw with gamestop and amc with i mean those gamestop and amc with i mean those gamestop and amc with i mean those companies the valuation make no sense companies the valuation make no sense companies the valuation make no sense the hedge funds that did the analysis the hedge funds that did the analysis the hedge funds that did the analysis they did it correctly they did it correctly they did it correctly but they are gone you know so i think but they are gone you know so i think but they are gone you know so i think and and and investing actually is not you know the investing actually is not you know the investing actually is not you know the small brain is it's not a it's really small brain is it's not a it's really small brain is it's not a it's really not a iq not a iq not a iq it's not a game where the highest iq it's not a game where the highest iq it's not a game where the highest iq wins the most important thing is wins the most important thing is wins the most important thing is temperament patience and temperament patience and temperament patience and you know like you know like you know like this company in turkey you didn't need this company in turkey you didn't need this company in turkey you didn't need more than 120 iq to figure out more than 120 iq to figure out more than 120 iq to figure out that it's really cheap i mean there was that it's really cheap i mean there was that it's really cheap i mean there was nothing special about about that but you nothing special about about that but you nothing special about about that but you needed to have a temperament needed to have a temperament needed to have a temperament where you were willing to where you were willing to where you were willing to buy when others were not buy when others were not buy when others were not and that you're willing to hold for a and that you're willing to hold for a and that you're willing to hold for a very long time and that's a lesson i'm
Othervery long time and that's a lesson i'm still learning that you know holding periods matter and i'll give you a quick story on that you know in 95 when i first started investing i was just investing my own money i had a total of 1 million dollars that i could put into the market and it didn't matter what happened to it and so on i put most of that in the u.s market and there was quite a bit of technology stocks and such because that's what i understood well but i carved out twenty thousand dollars and i opened a account with kotak mahindra in india and out of the twenty thousand i put ten thousand into an iit company satyam and this was actually before satyam had any of the fraud and all that came many years later and so ten thousand went into satyam and then the other ten thousand went into three other stocks i knew that
Otherwent into three other stocks i knew that at that time in 95 indian postal system was useless and if people wanted to get anything anywhere they wouldn't need to use private courier services and there were two listed korea companies blue dot and skype and i put like 33 or 3500 into each of them and then last minute as i was kind of doing all of this because i had been interacting with kotak and actually it's interesting falguni nayar was my contact at kotak in london when i was opening the account and such i was really impressed with the quote-up team and i really was impressed when i came to india and not even point met all these people and so i said you know i didn't even look at the financials much i said i'm going to put about 3000 into kotak you know so so basically my four bets were satyam uh blue dart sky pack and quota these
Otheruh blue dart sky pack and quota these four bets rightfour bets rightfour bets right and then you know this whole dot comand then you know this whole dot comand then you know this whole dot com thing and i got physical shares thesething and i got physical shares thesething and i got physical shares these dilapidated share certificates becausedilapidated share certificates becausedilapidated share certificates because they were not debated d-man at that timethey were not debated d-man at that timethey were not debated d-man at that time and i just stuck those chairs in theand i just stuck those chairs in theand i just stuck those chairs in the bottom drawer of my office and said i'mbottom drawer of my office and said i'mbottom drawer of my office and said i'm never opening the drawer just let it sitnever opening the drawer just let it sitnever opening the drawer just let it sit there foreverthere foreverthere forever and uh what what happened is i thinkand uh what what happened is i thinkand uh what what happened is i think after four or five years i noticed thatafter four or five years i noticed thatafter four or five years i noticed that satyam which i bought at 40 rupees asatyam which i bought at 40 rupees asatyam which i bought at 40 rupees a shareshareshare was sitting at like 6 000 rupees a sharewas sitting at like 6 000 rupees a sharewas sitting at like 6 000 rupees a share and i said you know let me just do anand i said you know let me just do anand i said you know let me just do an analysis what this thing is actuallyanalysis what this thing is actuallyanalysis what this thing is actually worthworthworth because all these things you know like ibecause all these things you know like ibecause all these things you know like i told you about microsoft all thesetold you about microsoft all thesetold you about microsoft all these things that become very euphoric theythings that become very euphoric theythings that become very euphoric they had spunout.com and i could not makehad spunout.com and i could not makehad spunout.com and i could not make head or tail of the valuation none of ithead or tail of the valuation none of ithead or tail of the valuation none of it made any sense to me so i said you knowmade any sense to me so i said you knowmade any sense to me so i said you know what we're not going to keep this in awhat we're not going to keep this in awhat we're not going to keep this in a drawer forever we're going to sell this
Questionerdrawer forever we're going to sell this and i also had concerns whether these certificates were worth anything and whether we'd be able to repatriate the money back for my nri account all these kind of uncertainties so anyway i sent that stuff to kotak and you know the 10 000 had become 1.5 million by the time i sold it was over seven thousand and we sold i think within ten percent of the top so that was like a huge home run ten thousand became one point three or one point four million and then i had these other three stocks and they had done nothing they were all sitting flat ten thousand had put in was still sitting at around nine or ten thousand and for no good reason and this is you know so dumb no good reason i sold all three i just said that it is not written in the cards that you're going gonna have 300 baggers out of or three or four hundred bags i
Otherout of or three or four hundred bags iout of or three or four hundred bags i said we got a great home run in indiasaid we got a great home run in indiasaid we got a great home run in india and we cashed out of the top of a greatand we cashed out of the top of a greatand we cashed out of the top of a great bubble and life is goodbubble and life is goodbubble and life is good so i sold kotak andso i sold kotak andso i sold kotak and uh blue dot and skype so kotak went upuh blue dot and skype so kotak went upuh blue dot and skype so kotak went up from then till now 500x blue dot is 300xfrom then till now 500x blue dot is 300xfrom then till now 500x blue dot is 300x and uh skypack went down 90and uh skypack went down 90and uh skypack went down 90 so that that never worked but you knowso that that never worked but you knowso that that never worked but you know out of four stocksout of four stocksout of four stocks three were more than 100 baggers ifthree were more than 100 baggers ifthree were more than 100 baggers if if i had the patienceif i had the patienceif i had the patience and it was so stupid it was so stupid toand it was so stupid it was so stupid toand it was so stupid it was so stupid to sell it because there was no reason isell it because there was no reason isell it because there was no reason i just simply i didn't need the money andjust simply i didn't need the money andjust simply i didn't need the money and and so i think thatand so i think thatand so i think that the biggest lesson i've learned in allthe biggest lesson i've learned in allthe biggest lesson i've learned in all these years of investingthese years of investingthese years of investing is the most important skill is to beis the most important skill is to beis the most important skill is to be patient and if your patientpatient and if your patientpatient and if your patient amazing things happenamazing things happenamazing things happen so that gets me to the third charge isso that gets me to the third charge isso that gets me to the third charge is that you're very lazy in yourthat you're very lazy in yourthat you're very lazy in your investments againinvestments againinvestments again i'm not i'm not as lazy as my friend guyi'm not i'm not as lazy as my friend guyi'm not i'm not as lazy as my friend guy spear but you know yeah is the moral ofspear but you know yeah is the moral ofspear but you know yeah is the moral of the story really you need to be even
Questionerthe story really you need to be even more lazy than you are
Questioneryeah you know i think there was a study done in fidelity did this study where they looked at the accounts that the investors made their own investment decisions and they wanted not relying on an advisor or someone and they studied the the returns those accounts are generated and they found a set of accounts where there was hardly any activity and those accounts had done the best and then they discovered that a large number of the accounts that are done truly the best the customers were already dead okay so there had been no trading because the owner of the account is not alive okay so and those those accounts have done the best okay
Questionerthe first investment i made when i started my investment fund the very first one july 1st 99 the company in silicon valley called silicon valley
Questionersilicon valley called silicon valley bankbankbank and i was trying to find a way to playand i was trying to find a way to playand i was trying to find a way to play the bubblethe bubblethe bubble where there was upside with no downsidewhere there was upside with no downsidewhere there was upside with no downside i was looking fori was looking fori was looking for ways to play it and silicon valley bankways to play it and silicon valley bankways to play it and silicon valley bank is a really well-run bank and they usedis a really well-run bank and they usedis a really well-run bank and they used to take warrants so they they onlyto take warrants so they they onlyto take warrants so they they only you know bank the only the only clientsyou know bank the only the only clientsyou know bank the only the only clients were venture back companieswere venture back companieswere venture back companies and whenever they made a like aand whenever they made a like aand whenever they made a like a equipment loan or something to a ventureequipment loan or something to a ventureequipment loan or something to a venture back company they would obviously chargeback company they would obviously chargeback company they would obviously charge the interest rate whatever else but theythe interest rate whatever else but theythe interest rate whatever else but they would also take warrants and in siliconwould also take warrants and in siliconwould also take warrants and in silicon valleyvalleyvalley even if you're a masseuse you geteven if you're a masseuse you geteven if you're a masseuse you get warrants if you're a waiter you getwarrants if you're a waiter you getwarrants if you're a waiter you get words everyone gets warrants on stockwords everyone gets warrants on stockwords everyone gets warrants on stock optionsoptionsoptions andandand so they had no disclosure on this hugeso they had no disclosure on this hugeso they had no disclosure on this huge basket awards they hadbasket awards they hadbasket awards they had but they we knew it was known that theybut they we knew it was known that theybut they we knew it was known that they had this basket awards andhad this basket awards andhad this basket awards and all these dot coms were going publicall these dot coms were going publicall these dot coms were going public and so i saw that this company isand so i saw that this company is
Questionerand so i saw that this company is trading close to book value but there's this huge unknown asset sitting there so i put ten percent of the fund and we started with one million dollars hundred thousand went into silicon valley bank and a few months after that they started to sell the ones that had gone public like they got out of the lockups and all that they started selling those and it was a multiple of what their normal earnings were i mean it was very significant amounts that were coming out and then people got clued in that this thing actually is a huge uh massive you know gift that keeps on giving and i think i got a like a two and a half times my money in a year like whatever 100 000 became 250 000 and in my infinite wisdom i sold because obviously i thought this whole bubble and everything is going on but silicon valley bank what i failed to appreciate
Questionervalley bank what i failed to appreciate was that it was an incredibly well-run bank and even today the franchise that they have there's no other bank that caters to the venture back companies it has compounded from 99 to now at like 26 a year right and i never captured any of that right i mean like it would be like buying hdfc or something or buying codec at that time and and so the thing is you know like i i say you know old too soon and why is too late uh this is the interesting thing about the investing business it's a very forgiving business if i go through my list of all my mistakes and screw-ups we'd be here for several hours but in spite of all that things work out which is what makes this business wonderful
Questionerso one thing i've not understood is you know you're willing to go to turkey and inspect factories there but how come you
Questionerinspect factories there but how come you just have one us investment you know ijust have one us investment you know ijust have one us investment you know i would assume that you would be able towould assume that you would be able towould assume that you would be able to find at least a few valuefind at least a few valuefind at least a few value uh values within the you know the placeuh values within the you know the placeuh values within the you know the place where you live sowhere you live sowhere you live so where does that come fromwhere does that come fromwhere does that come from
Otherit's coming from the place that i amit's coming from the place that i amit's coming from the place that i am i am very focused oni am very focused oni am very focused on large multibaggerslarge multibaggerslarge multibaggers so i used to be i meanso i used to be i meanso i used to be i mean this is this is how i used to investthis is this is how i used to investthis is this is how i used to invest when i first started in 95 and that'swhen i first started in 95 and that'swhen i first started in 95 and that's why i bought those you knowwhy i bought those you knowwhy i bought those you know blue dot et cetera because i just sawblue dot et cetera because i just sawblue dot et cetera because i just saw that that runway was going to go onthat that runway was going to go onthat that runway was going to go on foreverforeverforever and i switched i switched in 99 2000and i switched i switched in 99 2000and i switched i switched in 99 2000 because things got so euphoric and crazybecause things got so euphoric and crazybecause things got so euphoric and crazy i should have what i should have done isi should have what i should have done isi should have what i should have done is switch back in 2009 2009 would be theswitch back in 2009 2009 would be theswitch back in 2009 2009 would be the perfect time to switch backperfect time to switch backperfect time to switch back back to compounders and soback to compounders and soback to compounders and so i'm not really interested in making ani'm not really interested in making ani'm not really interested in making an investment where i can double my moneyinvestment where i can double my moneyinvestment where i can double my money what i'm really interested in iswhat i'm really interested in iswhat i'm really interested in is can i hold something for 10 or 20 years
Questionercan i hold something for 10 or 20 years and can we get 30 50 100 x of what we put in and so when you when you have a framework where you have a you know that type of horizon you know two or three things become important one is you want to be investing in businesses that have these long runways and have very strong you know staying power and so on there there may be a large number of businesses like that but i'm not able to see them so there's a very small sliver of them that i'm able to understand so when i look at the us markets it's difficult for me to in this environment even with the corrections we've had recently to find things that would go up even five or 10x in the next five or ten years i think that's hard to find and and i find that if i go to a place like turkey most of the businesses i think you're better off not touching but there's a
Warrenbetter off not touching but there's a sliver of them that are amazing and i think they're going to transcend all the all the macro advents so right that's why i end up where i end up so you're not living up to your name uh your moniker of being lazy so you i think it is a lot of hard work it seems well so the i think the thing is that it's i don't think of it you know uh tom tom murphy just died recently he was i think 95 or 96. he ran capital cities abc and you know and then they sold it to disney anyway a wonderful guy the new york times had a long obituary on him very close friend of bob buffett you know he he said it to one of the i think one of the speeches he gave at harvard that he's never worked a day in his life you know he was just so excited everybody to go to work and do deals and solve problems that he never really thought he worked
Warrenthought he worked and you know my job description really is reading and thinking so i really don't think of it like if if i went sightseeing in turkey i would not be that happy but if i spent a week you know visiting 15 businesses uh that's an orgasmic experience so to me it's not work i think it was just just just understanding these things figuring them out out out so the idea in investing is the job description is really reading and and and thinking thinking thinking and and not acting so not acting so not acting so actions need to be very actions need to be very actions need to be very infrequent yeah and infrequent yeah and infrequent yeah and if you you need to you need to be if you you need to you need to be if you you need to you need to be curious and you need to be willing to curious and you need to be willing to curious and you need to be willing to understand different things and then understand different things and then understand different things and then that can make it a great life that can make it a great life that can make it a great life
Questionerright so i mean that's that brings me to your my first fourth charge against you which is that you're boring so it seems that uh you are you know i think you go that uh you are you know i think you go that uh you are you know i think you go through very intense periods before your through very intense periods before your through very intense periods before your investment and then you know you
Questionerinvestment and then you know you after that it's uh you know you probably kind of just lock it and forget it and then i think obviously you read a lot you think a lot you kind of quiz a philosopher you're also a teacher i've seen your sessions and of course you're obviously as a philanthropist it takes uh i guess some part of your time as well how do you respond to that you know being kind of lazy and boring as you said is you know you said dead people are the best investors so is there another way you know people spend at least most investment professionals spend you know 18 hours studying uh companies reports etc etc you have very different style from those people and of course it's been it's a successful style so maybe you could talk a bit about the fourth chart
Warrenyeah so you know even now buffett spends maybe 10 10 hours or more a week
Questioner10 hours or more a week playing bridge and i know i probably spend a similar amount maybe you know seven eight hours a week maybe 10 hours a week playing bridge it's awesome and actually this was a i had an interest in bridge and started playing it uh about seven eight years before i even heard of warren buffett so i know this did not come from him it was kind of two independent things that happened to coincide two or three years ago i think maybe yeah maybe two or three years ago buffett made an investment a set of investments where he bought five to ten percent stakes in a bunch of japanese trading houses and it wasn't a lot of money i think it went like six seven billion dollars went into that which is very small for berkshire but the interesting thing is that when he did that investment the entire amount he invested the entire seven billion he
Questionerhe invested the entire seven billion hehe invested the entire seven billion he investedinvestedinvested he borrowedhe borrowedhe borrowed in yenin yenin yen in japanin japanin japan and he borrowed it at like aand he borrowed it at like aand he borrowed it at like a half a percent a year or somethinghalf a percent a year or somethinghalf a percent a year or something sososo here's berkshire hathaway sitting withhere's berkshire hathaway sitting withhere's berkshire hathaway sitting with 100 billion of cash earning nothing100 billion of cash earning nothing100 billion of cash earning nothing sitting in u.s treasuries earningsitting in u.s treasuries earningsitting in u.s treasuries earning nothing like you know quarter percent ornothing like you know quarter percent ornothing like you know quarter percent or somethingsomethingsomething and he goes and you know invest in theseand he goes and you know invest in theseand he goes and you know invest in these you know three or four japaneseyou know three or four japaneseyou know three or four japanese companiescompaniescompanies and he doesn't put up his own money heand he doesn't put up his own money heand he doesn't put up his own money he he borrows the whole thinghe borrows the whole thinghe borrows the whole thing andandand the reason he did that was that thesethe reason he did that was that thesethe reason he did that was that these companiescompaniescompanies had a dividend yield of seven eighthad a dividend yield of seven eighthad a dividend yield of seven eight percentpercentpercent andandand hehehe probably also understoodprobably also understoodprobably also understood that they were cheap they were sittingthat they were cheap they were sittingthat they were cheap they were sitting quite cheap now what has happened in thequite cheap now what has happened in thequite cheap now what has happened in the last three years is all of them havelast three years is all of them havelast three years is all of them have moved up like 50 to 70 percentmoved up like 50 to 70 percentmoved up like 50 to 70 percent okayokayokay andandand he's paying that half percent interesthe's paying that half percent interesthe's paying that half percent interest and he's collecting seven percentand he's collecting seven percentand he's collecting seven percent dividenddividenddividend so this is what munger describesso this is what munger describes
Questionerso this is what munger describes as he says warren has a very large brain and that brain needs to be active but it needs to be active in a manner that is not detrimental to berkshire hathaway so this japanese bet is not going to do anything for berkshire hathaway but what it does is it soaks up brain power for berkshire it is this kind of funny interesting mathematical game where he is able to show the world that hey look here's something that was sitting there where i couldn't put a lot of money into it but i go to 667 billion and without any risk really i'm going to make several billion on it i mean the annualized return on that and the annual return on equity invested is infinite it's a it's a crazy bet and he's done this in the past like one time he issued berkshire he issued debt for berkshire at a negative interest rate right and he
Questionerright and he issued it just to show that it could be done right so so there's a bunch of activities that buffett engages in which is basically to soak up extra horsepower because if you don't soak up the extra horsepower it's going to lead to negative results so bridge soaks up some extra horsepower this japanese bed soak up extra house power he did he's done a bunch of these weird things special situations and things he does some of that in his own personal account all of that soaks up horsepower he bought a bunch of cheap korean stocks one saturday afternoon looking at a report and none of that moved the needle but it basically what what manga told me is that those activities are really important because they make sure that nothing weird happens with that extra horsepower right so so we have to be very we have to find ways so it's good to
Questionerwe have to find ways so it's good to have dakshina it's good to have bridge have dakshina it's good to have bridge and most important it's very important and most important it's very important to talk to sandeep to talk to sandeep so uh that brings me to the final charges so uh that brings me to the final charges i've called you lazy small brained i've called you lazy small brained unoriginal and boring killer unoriginal and boring killer and the last one requires the kind of and the last one requires the kind of the most detailed uh response from you the most detailed uh response from you which is you know you you mentioned that which is you know you you mentioned that you know even if with five percent of you know even if with five percent of warren buffett's capacity you can warren buffett's capacity you can actually be a superb investor actually be a superb investor can you can you maybe maybe tell me you know from from what i hear tell me you know from from what i hear even though you've been you know you even though you've been you know you you've you've been very open about your investment been very open about your investment philosophy philosophy it appears to me that you know 99.9 it appears to me that you know 99.9 percent of even professional investors percent of even professional investors can't replicate what you do second part can't replicate what you do second part is really what you do is is really what you do is not scalable not scalable you know if you had 500 billion dollars you know if you had 500 billion dollars tomorrow tomorrow would you be able to be uh you know a
Questionerwould you be uh you know a monish barbara investor
Othermonish barbara investor
Questioneryeah so the second answer is no i mean
Otheryeah so the second answer is no i mean
Otheryeah so the second answer is no i mean
Otherall investors are going to do worse
Otherall investors are going to do worse
Otherall investors are going to do worse as the
Otheras the
Otherthe the size of the assets go up because
Otherthe size of the assets go up because
Otherthe size of the assets go up because
Otheryour universe shrinks dramatically
Otheryour universe shrinks dramatically
Otheryour universe shrinks dramatically
Otheri mean i think one of the reasons
Otheri mean i think one of the reasons
Otheri mean i think one of the reasons
Otherbuffett was doing that the japanese
Otherbuffett was doing that the japanese
Otherbuffett was doing that the japanese
Otherstuff is because
Otherstuff is because
Otherstuff is because
Otherbasically at this point berkshire needs
Otherbasically at this point berkshire needs
Otherbasically at this point berkshire needs
Otherto put up you know 30 50 billion at a
Otherto put up you know 30 50 billion at a
Otherto put up you know 30 50 billion at a
Othertime
Othertime
Othertime
Otherto move the needle
Otherto move the needle
Otherto move the needle
Otherand
Otherand
Otherand
Otherwhat kind of equities can you buy
Otherwhat kind of equities can you buy
Otherwhat kind of equities can you buy
Otherwhere you could put 20 30 billion to
Otherwhere you could put 20 30 billion to
Otherwhere you could put 20 30 billion to
Otherwork well you need to buy companies you
Otherwork well you need to buy companies you
Otherwork well you need to buy companies you
Otherwant to keep it less than 10
Otherwant to keep it less than 10
Otherwant to keep it less than 10
Otheryou know over two or three hundred
Otheryou know over two or three hundred
Otheryou know over two or three hundred
Otherbillion in market value and how many
Otherbillion in market value and how many
Otherbillion in market value and how many
Othercompanies are there like you know 20 30
Othercompanies are there like you know 20 30
Othercompanies are there like you know 20 30
Othercompanies and that's what you've done
Othercompanies and that's what you've done
Othercompanies and that's what you've done
Otherand how many of those are you know great
Otherand how many of those are you know great
Otherand how many of those are you know great
Othervalues etc so it becomes really hard the
Othervalues etc so it becomes really hard the
Othervalues etc so it becomes really hard the
Otherlarge large sums uh make it really hard
Otherlarge large sums uh make it really hard
Otherlarge large sums uh make it really hard
Otherbut i think the
Otherbut i think the
Otherbut i think the
Otheryou know einstein said that compounding
Questioneryou know einstein said that compounding is the eighth wonder of the world if you are a know-nothing investor and you just bought the index you know i mean if you look at the bse index you know from when whenever till now or you look at the the dow the s p whatever you know simply has given us nine percent for very long period of time 100 years plus you know like i said you're spending less than you earn you're putting the money away even at the eight nine percent whatever the power of compounding takes over so you don't need to compound at high rates there are three variables that control the eventual wealth right one is the most important of the three variables is the length of the runway and then then the second is the the rate of return and the third is the amount of capital you start with so it's a combination of those three that and buffett gives an example
Questionerthree that and buffett gives an example he gave an example in the in the 1950s in his investment letters to his partners about the minuet indians where he said that the dutch the dutch in i think 1622 or something they bought the island of manhattan from these minority indians from for the equivalent of twenty dollars you know people listen to the story and say oh you know the indians were taking advantage of buffett says that you know if the minion indians had a investment officer and they gave the investment office of this twenty dollars and they said you know please invest it for the benefit of the tribe and let's say that guy wasn't so bright and you know he could do seven percent a year right now if you do seven percent a year you know rule of 72 your money will double every 10 years and if you take a 100 year period it's 10 doubles
Other10 doubles10 doubles that's 2 to the power ten that's onethat's 2 to the power ten that's onethat's 2 to the power ten that's one thousand one thousand twenty four butthousand one thousand twenty four butthousand one thousand twenty four but let's say it's one thousandlet's say it's one thousandlet's say it's one thousand so if he was doing seven percent a yearso if he was doing seven percent a yearso if he was doing seven percent a year by seventeen twenty oneby seventeen twenty oneby seventeen twenty one it would beit would beit would be twenty thousandtwenty thousandtwenty thousand by eighteen twenty oneby eighteen twenty oneby eighteen twenty one it will be 20 millionit will be 20 millionit will be 20 million by 1921 it'd be 20 billionby 1921 it'd be 20 billionby 1921 it'd be 20 billion and by 2022and by 2022and by 2022 that we're at right now it'd bethat we're at right now it'd bethat we're at right now it'd be 20 trillion20 trillion20 trillion okay 7 for 400 years if you just takeokay 7 for 400 years if you just takeokay 7 for 400 years if you just take this thought experiment a little bitthis thought experiment a little bitthis thought experiment a little bit backwardsbackwardsbackwards sososo let's say we started at in 1522 goinglet's say we started at in 1522 goinglet's say we started at in 1522 going back 100 yearsback 100 yearsback 100 years so 20 dollars is 2 000 centsso 20 dollars is 2 000 centsso 20 dollars is 2 000 cents basicallybasicallybasically it'd be two cents so in 1522 if you hadit'd be two cents so in 1522 if you hadit'd be two cents so in 1522 if you had two centstwo centstwo cents in 2022 you would have 20 trillionin 2022 you would have 20 trillionin 2022 you would have 20 trillion at seven percentat seven percentat seven percent sososo basically the thing with compounding isbasically the thing with compounding isbasically the thing with compounding is thatthatthat when you look at this kind of awhen you look at this kind of awhen you look at this kind of a situation obviously you know so likesituation obviously you know so likesituation obviously you know so like buffett says if people ask him hey ifbuffett says if people ask him hey ifbuffett says if people ask him hey if you could have only one wishyou could have only one wishyou could have only one wish what is the wish you would wantwhat is the wish you would wantwhat is the wish you would want he said i i really only want one thing
Questionerhe said i i really only want one thing he said i i really only want one thing he says that he says that he says that when they look at my corpse when they look at my corpse when they look at my corpse they should say man he was he was old they should say man he was he was old they should say man he was he was old because what he wants more than anything because what he wants more than anything because what he wants more than anything else is he wants the longest possible else is he wants the longest possible else is he wants the longest possible runway to compound so you know it's runway to compound so you know it's runway to compound so you know it's amazing he started 11 amazing he started 11 amazing he started 11 and now he's 91. and now he's 91. and now he's 91. so he's been so he's been so he's been running this engine running this engine running this engine at 14 or 15 years like five thousand at 14 or 15 years like five thousand at 14 or 15 years like five thousand dollars and of course now it's you know dollars and of course now it's you know dollars and of course now it's you know more than 100 billion after having given more than 100 billion after having given more than 100 billion after having given a lot of money so what i'm what i'm a lot of money so what i'm what i'm a lot of money so what i'm what i'm trying to say is that trying to say is that trying to say is that this this this the people what they lose sight of is the people what they lose sight of is the people what they lose sight of is six seven eight percent returns nine six seven eight percent returns nine six seven eight percent returns nine percent returns are not percent returns are not percent returns are not anything to look down on right those are anything to look down on right those are anything to look down on right those are very robust numbers and over a lifetime very robust numbers and over a lifetime very robust numbers and over a lifetime we don't like the minute union just we don't like the minute union just we don't like the minute union just start with twenty dollars and never get start with twenty dollars and never get start with twenty dollars and never get to add you're you're making savings to add you're you're making savings to add you're you're making savings every year every year every year and so the simple thing the important and so the simple thing the important and so the simple thing the important thing is just to be consistent about it
Otherthing is just to be consistent about it and in the end you can't help get but but get wealthy if you follow this consistently so that's i think that's why einstein calls it the 8th wonder of the world i think compounding is magical
Questionerso let me just uh close with one final question you know i i start as following your trajectory and i found it very similar to nick sleeps trajectory in terms of you know he talks about how the short end of the equity yield curve there's a lot of competition but there's very little on the long longer younger uh yield cup both of you went into philanthropy he's he of course hung up his boats and both of you went into long-term philanthropy which has long gestation periods but outside returns and both of you kind of are in the business of teaching to fish rather than writing checks so this is i don't know who inspired who but it's it's quite a
Questionerwho inspired who but it's it's quite a interesting journey if you could just the final question really is you know in terms of him being a geography major and you kind of having a more fun engineering i.t services background has has been an outsider helped as an investment professional as compared to a person who you know stayed out of mba starts kind of managing money
Questioneryeah it's a good question
Todd Combsi think uh i would have done much worse if i had followed uh if i i mean you know my my teachers have been warren and charlie and i never really worked in the investment business under anyone you know so pretty much i whatever i learned i learned from them and ben graham and i think that's it's a gift it's a gift that they were willing to teach that everything in the public domain that you could take it from there i think nick is miles ahead of me from an investing point of
Questionerahead of me from an investing point of view he really figured out a lot of stuff quite well and a lot of it people don't fully understand but he's got some incredible wisdom on a number of fronts on on his investing he i think he has overdosed on the dakshina annual reports he reads those and i think maybe some inspiration may have come from from that but i think like i said in the beginning basically at the end of the day you end up with this quandary where there are only two choices right you've got the gene pool or the society and i think he confronted that as well and you know he he likes race cars and he you know races race cars on the track and he's biked across china and then he's a very adventurous guy on different fronts but i think he realized pretty obviously that for him and his partner that they really had to find a second
Questionerreally had to find a second an engine to give away the money we have a similar psyche in the sense that all of us want to optimize and i think that's why buffett wrote that letter because he also wants to see that his money that is going to charity is well used and i think nick wants to see that its values and he recognizes that it's difficult it's uh it's a challenge that's why he's trying to do as good a job as he can on that front great so uh i don't know how much time you have for questions but uh hopefully we can take at least uh yeah why don't we take a couple of questions
Questionerso i have a lot of people who requested also while summer disconnect maybe maybe talk a bit about you know how much in your journey do you do you attribute to luck well i think i think luck is a huge part of the equation so like for example of the equation so like for example in
Questionerin 94 i was vacationing in london with my wife i was looking for something to read on the flight back i picked up one of peter lynch's books i was running an i.t company i wasn't i don't think i'd bought any stocks or anything till then or something but i found that book really fascinating and then i wanted to know more i read the second peter lynch book and then the second one is talking about prophet and then i was curious who this guy buffett is and i was very lucky that they were the first couple of biographies and him were out i kept going so what i'm saying is that the fact that i even became an investor is total fluke i could have picked up a book on a different topic the trajectory would have been quite different quite inferior i would think
Otheryes am i an audible yes please yes so uh
Questionermr uh you said that um it's hard enough picking uh the stocks and understanding
Questionerpicking uh the stocks and understanding understanding the trajectory of earnings so why you know be bogged down with the by the macroeconomics but for people who want global diversification their best result is index funds and don't you think uh understanding macro perspectives foreign index funds and for global allocation is important
Warrenwell i mean i think if you have a good understanding of you know where things are going to go that's wonderful but i think it's really hard to do that so i think trying to figure out i mean let's take a situation i think this year at the berkshire meeting i got and i don't know a lot of you picked up on this or not but i got a distinct sense that both warren and charlie do not think that the odds are zero that russia will resort to nuclear weapons basically they're getting backed into a corner
Questionercorner and you've got a megalomaniac who's getting backed into a corner and you've got this huge nuclear arsenal he may decide to use some of it and they kind of you know they wrapped it in some jokes etc but but the thing is that the odds of of us having nuclear event nuclear weapons at least like one or more set off in 2022 is not zero and it's not even i think it's more than one percent i think it might be even five percent if you know i don't know how to place those odds but that's an example of why this stuff becomes so hard you know how much you want to overdose on that and how do you how do you want to think about some factor like that so i think that if you were you know globally diversifying dollar cost averaging and going in over time and yeah equity markets can do whatever they do but if you have a long enough runway
Otherdo but if you have a long enough runway and all of that it will be it's probably the best way to go i think trying to answer these other these types of questions is really hard
Questionerhello hi thanks for the opportunity sandeep i would like to ask mr pabrai what is his outlook on india from an investment point of view for the future come given the current uh global scenarios
Otheryeah i think i think india has a lot of promise and a lot of you know long-term tailwinds the sad part about india that i always find is that there is so much low hanging fruit which would make the country so much better and wealthier and people standard livings would rise if if a few of these changes were made and they're very obvious changes some of them are maybe politically might be a little bit difficult but but i i just find that the the entrepreneurial spirit and you know letting free enterprise do its thing
Questionerletting free enterprise do its thing is so curtailed and constrained in india that it just hurts itself in a major way and we've seen i mean if you just see the trajectory china has been on and what it accomplished when it you know unleashed full-on capitalism versus you know we are still very heavily rooted in a lot of government red tape and bureaucracy in a lot of areas it's uh it's it's sad but i would say even given all those realities i think india is a good place to be and i think it'll do really well uh abraham hi mr paparaz thank you for this opportunity sandeep i just wanted to quickly mention mr barbara one of your jokes that regarding the guinness joke in your trinity college was a really funny one but in terms of questions i would like to ask in terms of it is there any specific uh from an indian perspective any specific growth
Questionerindian perspective any specific growth sectors that you think are uh worth looking at from your perspective
Todd Combswell i mean i think that you know there are areas in india that will do really well uh i think i think that uh i think it services cloud all of that will do really well even though it's pretty sizable today the issue that comes up is that many of these things can be obvious i mean if i knew that the it sector would grow a lot it doesn't mean that i can make money out of it so then you know just knowing that is not enough because then you get to the valuations and individual businesses and all of that so i don't think it's so easy to and i don't i actually don't look at things that way i don't start at the top and then go down i don't usually look at it like that what i'm what i'm looking for is what i would call anomalies
Todd Combscall anomalies andandand you can make a lot of moneyyou can make a lot of moneyyou can make a lot of money even when there is no growth if theeven when there is no growth if theeven when there is no growth if the value is so compellingvalue is so compellingvalue is so compelling i mean like like if i look at thei mean like like if i look at thei mean like like if i look at the turkish bed i madeturkish bed i madeturkish bed i made those guys are really good capitalthose guys are really good capitalthose guys are really good capital allocators but if it did absolutelyallocators but if it did absolutelyallocators but if it did absolutely nothing to the businessnothing to the businessnothing to the business we would still make 30 times when itwe would still make 30 times when itwe would still make 30 times when it gets valued fairlygets valued fairlygets valued fairly so just to get from the value i boughtso just to get from the value i boughtso just to get from the value i bought to the fair valueto the fair valueto the fair value would be a 30x and it's hard for them towould be a 30x and it's hard for them towould be a 30x and it's hard for them to destroy that valuedestroy that valuedestroy that value so andso andso and what they've actually shown is they'rewhat they've actually shown is they'rewhat they've actually shown is they're increasing that value they're reallyincreasing that value they're reallyincreasing that value they're really smart about itsmart about itsmart about it sososo i don't i don't particularly go lookingi don't i don't particularly go lookingi don't i don't particularly go looking for the hottest sectors or the highestfor the hottest sectors or the highestfor the hottest sectors or the highest growth or any of thatgrowth or any of thatgrowth or any of that what i'm looking for is anomalies andwhat i'm looking for is anomalies andwhat i'm looking for is anomalies and i'm looking for what other smarti'm looking for what other smarti'm looking for what other smart investors are doing andinvestors are doing andinvestors are doing and why they're doing it and whether there'swhy they're doing it and whether there'swhy they're doing it and whether there's stuff that i can understand that makesstuff that i can understand that makesstuff that i can understand that makes sensesensesense and then take it from thereand then take it from thereand then take it from there
Questionerdoctor are you the last
Questionerdoctor are you the last person for a question we've taken a lot of time from oneish we'll take that as the last question thank you sandeep for the opportunity uh i wanted to ask mr monish what do you think of the idea of buying net nets at the current uh market do you think it's still compelling or is the anomaly gone
Otheri mean i think net nets uh net tests can work as long as they're not you know going to like in the in the dot-com era we had a lot of net nets but they were fake in the sense that they were going to destroy all the value there was because they were bleeding so much every day so it was an illusion that those stocks were cheap yeah but if you can find real net nets it can work out it's not an area that i have much interest in anymore i it took me a long time to learn that see i think the one thing about this the stock market is is that like 50 000
Questionerstock market is is that like 50 000 stocks globally whatever criteria you set let's say you say that i want to buy net net so i want to buy peo ones if i want to buy anything that's less than pe of 3 or i want to buy 10 baggers or 100 baggers or thousand baggers whatever you set as your criteria if you stay focused on that you will find it that's the amazing thing there are a thousand baggers out there 100 baggers out there 10 baggers out there two baggers out there peo ones net nets all of the above and so i i decided for myself that i like the multibagger game it's kind of a fun game it's a lucrative game and so that's where i want to put my energy but i think if you decide to put your energy on net nets uh all in uh you will you will do well with that because they are there and they are overlooked and all of that so that can work out quite well
Otherwork out quite wellwork out quite well great uh thanks manish i think somebodygreat uh thanks manish i think somebodygreat uh thanks manish i think somebody on twitter asks uh if we can findon twitter asks uh if we can findon twitter asks uh if we can find uh stuck stuff on nick sleep i thinkuh stuck stuff on nick sleep i thinkuh stuck stuff on nick sleep i think there are semi-annual uh letters whichthere are semi-annual uh letters whichthere are semi-annual uh letters which he has written which are available onhe has written which are available onhe has written which are available on our siteour siteour site i posted on in twitter you could go toi posted on in twitter you could go toi posted on in twitter you could go to that it's called igy foundation.org dotthat it's called igy foundation.org dotthat it's called igy foundation.org dot ukukuk those are great letters and i'm surethose are great letters and i'm surethose are great letters and i'm sure manish would endorse thatmanish would endorse thatmanish would endorse that with that you know thank thanks so muchwith that you know thank thanks so muchwith that you know thank thanks so much manish for being here takingmanish for being here takingmanish for being here taking out so much of well well over one hourout so much of well well over one hourout so much of well well over one hour twenty minutestwenty minutestwenty minutes of your time and uh thanks once againof your time and uh thanks once againof your time and uh thanks once again for being here uh well one thing i justfor being here uh well one thing i justfor being here uh well one thing i just wanted to say is thatwanted to say is thatwanted to say is that and i want to say this to all theand i want to say this to all theand i want to say this to all the listeners i gave sandeep a big challengelisteners i gave sandeep a big challengelisteners i gave sandeep a big challenge uh when we were going to do this i saiduh when we were going to do this i saiduh when we were going to do this i said listen sandeep here are the rules oflisten sandeep here are the rules oflisten sandeep here are the rules of this of this session number onethis of this session number onethis of this session number one don't send me any questions in advancedon't send me any questions in advancedon't send me any questions in advance that really makes it verythat really makes it very
Charliethat really makes it very non-fun for me number two don't ask me any questions that i've answered 20 times before so the second one was hard for him because he had to go probably listen to all kinds of videos and whatever which i'm sure you spent a lot of time doing in the last few months
Charlieand and actually i have to say that this was a very fun session for me uh especially because you followed that second rule so i i answered a bunch of questions i've never answered before which was fun for me and i think they were just wonderful questions so thank you very much
Questionerthanks thanks so much thanks everybody uh sorry we couldn't take all the questions we have 20 more questions uh we hopefully manish will give us time another another time next year till then thanks everybody and good night bye bye