Otherforeign[Music]everybody good afternoon and thank youeverybody good afternoon and thank youeverybody good afternoon and thank you for joining us for today's specialfor joining us for today's specialfor joining us for today's special interactive session ask me anything withinteractive session ask me anything withinteractive session ask me anything with Manish Pub right and we're thrilled toManish Pub right and we're thrilled toManish Pub right and we're thrilled to have two very special guests with ushave two very special guests with ushave two very special guests with us here today Manish and Kim so my name ishere today Manish and Kim so my name ishere today Manish and Kim so my name is pramita Saha and I'm the director ofpramita Saha and I'm the director ofpramita Saha and I'm the director of student and alumni engagement at thestudent and alumni engagement at thestudent and alumni engagement at the recently relaunched Investmentrecently relaunched Investmentrecently relaunched Investment Management Center at UNC Keenan FlaglerManagement Center at UNC Keenan FlaglerManagement Center at UNC Keenan Flagler so the IM Center is focused on threeso the IM Center is focused on threeso the IM Center is focused on three main pillars Investment Management ESGmain pillars Investment Management ESGmain pillars Investment Management ESG and Dei so the mission of the center isand Dei so the mission of the center isand Dei so the mission of the center is to integrate and holistically manage allto integrate and holistically manage allto integrate and holistically manage all areas of investment management at UNCareas of investment management at UNCareas of investment management at UNC Canon Flagler so we can prepare theCanon Flagler so we can prepare theCanon Flagler so we can prepare the leaders of the industry of the futureleaders of the industry of the futureleaders of the industry of the future and we Define investment management hereand we Define investment management hereand we Define investment management here very broadly so three different bucketsvery broadly so three different bucketsvery broadly so three different buckets fundamental analysis so that could befundamental analysis so that could befundamental analysis so that could be public and private markets withinpublic and private markets withinpublic and private markets within equities and credit and then we also
Otherequities and credit and then we also include private wealth Capital allocation as well as emerging areas such as macro and Quant and on the ESG side we're really striving to give our students the tools and the vocabulary to integrate ESG into their investment and or business analysis and then on the Dei front we're really looking to attract top talent including diversifying our student base to be 50 diverse in IM and we're also looking to cultivate a culture of inclusion and belonging in investment management and finance not only at UNC Canon Flagler but in the community at Large and then I also wanted to give kudos here to Stokely Griffin he is a first year MBA student and he really made the special event happen so thank you very much Stokely and also shout out to Stokely and his teammates for their tremendous performance at the alpha
Othertremendous performance at the alpha challenge last week so UNC Canon Flaglerchallenge last week so UNC Canon Flaglerchallenge last week so UNC Canon Flagler placed first in both the equity andplaced first in both the equity andplaced first in both the equity and credit brackets this hasn't happenedcredit brackets this hasn't happenedcredit brackets this hasn't happened since 2015 so we're still in shock butsince 2015 so we're still in shock butsince 2015 so we're still in shock but way to bring it back home so with thatway to bring it back home so with thatway to bring it back home so with that let's turn it back to today's sessionlet's turn it back to today's sessionlet's turn it back to today's session and we want to make this highlyand we want to make this highlyand we want to make this highly interactive so just encourage you tointeractive so just encourage you tointeractive so just encourage you to pose questions at any time you can raisepose questions at any time you can raisepose questions at any time you can raise the hand feature on Zoom you can postthe hand feature on Zoom you can postthe hand feature on Zoom you can post questions in the chat and so we'll goquestions in the chat and so we'll goquestions in the chat and so we'll go along that way and now it is my pleasurealong that way and now it is my pleasurealong that way and now it is my pleasure to introduce our moderator Cameronto introduce our moderator Cameronto introduce our moderator Cameron height he is the CEO of alpha Theory andheight he is the CEO of alpha Theory andheight he is the CEO of alpha Theory and Center book Partners so cam is a UNCCenter book Partners so cam is a UNCCenter book Partners so cam is a UNC Canon Flagler Alum he's been on theCanon Flagler Alum he's been on theCanon Flagler Alum he's been on the applied Investment Management board andapplied Investment Management board andapplied Investment Management board and most recently his firm Alpha theory wasmost recently his firm Alpha theory wasmost recently his firm Alpha theory was a founding corporate sponsor of the newa founding corporate sponsor of the newa founding corporate sponsor of the new investment management center and Cam andinvestment management center and Cam andinvestment management center and Cam and his team have just been instrumentalhis team have just been instrumentalhis team have just been instrumental with incorporating their amazing product
Otherwith incorporating their amazing product into our aim class and it's just been a terrific partnership all around so with that let me hand it over to cam oh thank you very much vermita I am blushing and thank you Stokely for making this happen uh and kudos to the alpha challenge teams that is awesome go Hills um so uh Manish I first learned about you uh from reading the checklist Manifesto which I think a lot of people probably learned about you from the checklist Manifesto uh you from what I understand is are an Ardent uh Buffett and and Monger disciple uh you have an amazing track record uh you're a big fan of checklists and you started a charity called the dakshana foundation with the goal of giving back your wealth to society um and admirable thank you very much for that and you are also a glutton for tough questions so you allow people to
Questionertough questions so you allow people to ask you questions a couple of times a month like this your ask to them is to make the questions as difficult as possible and avoid repeating questions that you've had previously um so with that I'll start it off um you know you're busy you have a lot of high Roi uses of your time why do you agree to do ask me anything sessions
Greg AbelI think the best way to learn is to teach so I have a lineman method I have an ulterior motive basically I actually find many times that I feel wiser after some of these sessions because of some of the comments or questions or you know some of the pushbacks and such that's obviously one direct Altria motive but also the second is that this community you know because of the legacy of Buffett and monger and especially Ben Graham has a legacy of teaching and educating and so generally
Otherteaching and educating and so generally I think the I would say the originalI think the I would say the originalI think the I would say the original practitioners and the best players inpractitioners and the best players inpractitioners and the best players in the field that's kind of the ethos theythe field that's kind of the ethos theythe field that's kind of the ethos they kind of laid down so we're just kind ofkind of laid down so we're just kind ofkind of laid down so we're just kind of following that path so it just startedfollowing that path so it just startedfollowing that path so it just started The Credo of being a value investor IThe Credo of being a value investor IThe Credo of being a value investor I thinkthinkthink that's great that thank youthat's great that thank youthat's great that thank you
Questionerum and for those that would like to askum and for those that would like to askum and for those that would like to ask questions for me to said just uh raisequestions for me to said just uh raisequestions for me to said just uh raise your hand with the the reactions or putyour hand with the the reactions or putyour hand with the the reactions or put in the chat and I will be glad toin the chat and I will be glad toin the chat and I will be glad to um call your name uh soum call your name uh soum call your name uh so you're famous for checklistsyou're famous for checklistsyou're famous for checklists um if you were an allocatorum if you were an allocatorum if you were an allocator investing in a manager not necessarilyinvesting in a manager not necessarilyinvesting in a manager not necessarily investing in a company because I knowinvesting in a company because I knowinvesting in a company because I know that you don't necessarily talk aboutthat you don't necessarily talk aboutthat you don't necessarily talk about all the items on your checklist uh ifall the items on your checklist uh ifall the items on your checklist uh if you're investing in a in anotheryou're investing in a in anotheryou're investing in a in another investment managerinvestment managerinvestment manager what would be on that checklist yeah Iwhat would be on that checklist yeah Iwhat would be on that checklist yeah I think actually finding a good investmentthink actually finding a good investmentthink actually finding a good investment managermanagermanager is a lot harder than finding a good
Ted Weschleris a lot harder than finding a good investment it is so it's a it is a investment it is so it's a it is a investment it is so it's a it is a challenge and I think there's a few challenge and I think there's a few challenge and I think there's a few things you can look for things you can look for things you can look for to try to put the odds in your favor so to try to put the odds in your favor so to try to put the odds in your favor so one is I think you would I'd be looking one is I think you would I'd be looking one is I think you would I'd be looking for aligned fee structure where there's for aligned fee structure where there's for aligned fee structure where there's kind of a win-win on both sides you know kind of a win-win on both sides you know kind of a win-win on both sides you know I took my fee structure from Warren I took my fee structure from Warren I took my fee structure from Warren Buffett where we don't have any Buffett where we don't have any Buffett where we don't have any management fees it's only performance management fees it's only performance management fees it's only performance fees and it's after the first six fees and it's after the first six fees and it's after the first six percent every year goes to investors so percent every year goes to investors so percent every year goes to investors so there's a sharing after the six percent there's a sharing after the six percent there's a sharing after the six percent the first thing I'd look for is a fee the first thing I'd look for is a fee the first thing I'd look for is a fee structure that's it's that is aligned structure that's it's that is aligned structure that's it's that is aligned which itself would be a stumbling block which itself would be a stumbling block which itself would be a stumbling block in this industry the second is I'd like in this industry the second is I'd like in this industry the second is I'd like to find a manager with a lot of skin in to find a manager with a lot of skin in to find a manager with a lot of skin in the game the game the game so I would look for a large portion so I would look for a large portion so I would look for a large portion of their assets being co-invested of their assets being co-invested of their assets being co-invested alongside me that not only do they gain alongside me that not only do they gain alongside me that not only do they gain from the fees but they also have upside
Todd Combsfrom the fees but they also have upside or downside based on their own assets so that's the second thing I would look for the third thing I'd look for is a relatively young person so basically I think we need enough enough years to be able to look back at our track record but also enough years so that someone could have a 20-year run there about so probably I would say about mid 40s type age band would actually be ideal because if they've been in the industry for from their early 20s then you've got about 20 odd years of information to look back on so the third would be the the age and then obviously the track record of what they've actually done that would give you some data points and one more thing I would look for is where do they go where do they go fishing if you look at the U.S public equities markets they're very picked over you have a lot of funds we have
Otherover you have a lot of funds we have more mutual funds than than stocks in the US by some margin uh probably more ETFs than stocks and there's many stocks where they have 30 analysts following that so the what I would look for is what's the kind of game plan to not be fishing where everyone else is so these were these are some of the things and then obviously we're looking for people with high integrity and people that you align with and who in their past track record demonstrated that they can do meaningfully better than the market without taking as much risk that's great yeah uh I I love to see your process as you go because you uh I I think your checklist is historically notorious for just things being added as you go I think you said that your checklist was here then it's got to hear now it's now it's like here I saw you like thinking as you go
Otherhere I saw you like thinking as you go you you said three things and you ended up with seven so that's the way that goes uh uh
Questionerbermita I see your hand is raised yeah sure so I wanted to ask a little bit about ESG um in my intro I mentioned how ESG is one of the key pillars for our Center here and I'm curious to hear your thoughts on a few things one I think ESG means different things to different people so how do you define ESG and do you incorporate it in your investment process
Warrenyeah I'm not sure you're gonna like my answer but I think that it's a complicated area and we get to some we get to kind of some strange results so for example I think in some list I saw they included Exxon the excluded Tesla so I'm kind of scratching my head about that one basically I think that it's we definitely want to look for businesses that are that are good for the ecosystem
Questionerthat are that are good for the ecosystem that are that are good for the ecosystem but there are also businesses which we but there are also businesses which we but there are also businesses which we look at a company like Exxon it's an look at a company like Exxon it's an look at a company like Exxon it's an essential very essential business for us essential very essential business for us essential very essential business for us to have the kind of quality of life and to have the kind of quality of life and to have the kind of quality of life and such that we desire we just can't banish such that we desire we just can't banish such that we desire we just can't banish every fossil fuel reducing company and every fossil fuel reducing company and every fossil fuel reducing company and say that life will still be great now we say that life will still be great now we say that life will still be great now we have a choice whether we invest in those have a choice whether we invest in those have a choice whether we invest in those or not and that's fine so I do look at or not and that's fine so I do look at or not and that's fine so I do look at how companies conduct themselves and how how companies conduct themselves and how how companies conduct themselves and how they the choices they make but I don't they the choices they make but I don't they the choices they make but I don't overdose on it so for example we've had overdose on it so for example we've had overdose on it so for example we've had a I think this is our oldest investment a I think this is our oldest investment a I think this is our oldest investment it's we've had this investment for eight it's we've had this investment for eight it's we've had this investment for eight and a half years it's a company actually and a half years it's a company actually and a half years it's a company actually got plants all over the world that got plants all over the world that got plants all over the world that provides inputs to the aluminum industry provides inputs to the aluminum industry provides inputs to the aluminum industry and the stuff they produce that is used and the stuff they produce that is used and the stuff they produce that is used by the aluminum industry to produce by the aluminum industry to produce by the aluminum industry to produce aluminum has a lot of discharge of gases aluminum has a lot of discharge of gases aluminum has a lot of discharge of gases and such and it's just part of the
Todd Combsand such and it's just part of the process the company has actually gone well beyond what is required by law in terms of reductions in emissions and so on and they put in scrubbers and so on that cost them several million dollars a year that their competitors don't do and they carry that cost so if you just took a glance at that company or that industry and you were overdosed on ESG you would just take a pass but I think when you peel the onion if you will then things look a little bit different I don't take the approach that I have to not invest in certain industries at all because of ESG I just look at it kind of one more layer deeper in terms of what type of corporate citizens are we talking about
Questioneryeah actually that's great I love your answer you said I wouldn't like it but that's yeah exactly what we're trying to do here basically dig a deeper uh dig a
Questionerdo here basically dig a deeper uh dig a little bit deeper to incorporate it into the analysis so thank you so much for that
Otherokay great I see uh love you have your hand raised yep hey hey Cameron nice to meet you and thanks promita for organizing it
Questioneruh monish a big fan of yours and have read the dundo investor so uh my question was more so I guess you know I wanted to ask on the psychological side when you do have like let's say you start an investment in a certain position and things don't necessarily go to plan um what are sort of criteria that you're thinking of internally as you evaluate whether or not to stick with it or whether to double down um and maybe the second question would be is where where are you going fishing these days I guess thanks yeah so
Otheractually one of the rules and I would say laws of the universe is everything I
Questionersay laws of the universe is everything I buy goes down in pricebuy goes down in pricebuy goes down in price and so I'm just resigned to the realityand so I'm just resigned to the realityand so I'm just resigned to the reality that it'll be going up till I buy it andthat it'll be going up till I buy it andthat it'll be going up till I buy it and then it proceeds to start going downthen it proceeds to start going downthen it proceeds to start going down especially after I've taken a fullespecially after I've taken a fullespecially after I've taken a full position so yeah I'm I think it's veryposition so yeah I'm I think it's veryposition so yeah I'm I think it's very common in my portfolio that we'll havecommon in my portfolio that we'll havecommon in my portfolio that we'll have positions that are recent positions thatpositions that are recent positions thatpositions that are recent positions that we've taken and we have some loss onwe've taken and we have some loss onwe've taken and we have some loss on them and sometimes even our meaningfulthem and sometimes even our meaningfulthem and sometimes even our meaningful loss on them I think that's just kind ofloss on them I think that's just kind ofloss on them I think that's just kind of power for the course and the realitypower for the course and the realitypower for the course and the reality with the investment business is thatwith the investment business is thatwith the investment business is that John Templeton said that the bestJohn Templeton said that the bestJohn Templeton said that the best investment analyst is going to be wronginvestment analyst is going to be wronginvestment analyst is going to be wrong one out of three times they're onlyone out of three times they're onlyone out of three times they're only going to be right two out of three timesgoing to be right two out of three timesgoing to be right two out of three times more more than likely it's more going tomore more than likely it's more going tomore more than likely it's more going to be wrong about half the time and thebe wrong about half the time and thebe wrong about half the time and the good news of this business is that evengood news of this business is that evengood news of this business is that even with a 50 error rate you can dowith a 50 error rate you can dowith a 50 error rate you can do extremely well well above market returns
Todd Combsextremely well well above market returns and such and such and such so so we we don't want to be using the stock we we don't want to be using the stock we we don't want to be using the stock price to instruct us we should be using price to instruct us we should be using price to instruct us we should be using the stock price to serve us the stock price to serve us the stock price to serve us and what should be instructing us is the and what should be instructing us is the and what should be instructing us is the fundamentals of the business fundamentals of the business fundamentals of the business and to the extent that something and to the extent that something and to the extent that something declines in price and we still have some declines in price and we still have some declines in price and we still have some dry powder to make it a full position it dry powder to make it a full position it dry powder to make it a full position it would not be the price that would drive would not be the price that would drive would not be the price that would drive that decision it would be more about that decision it would be more about that decision it would be more about what are the fundamentals it has what are the fundamentals it has what are the fundamentals it has something fundamental changed and that something fundamental changed and that something fundamental changed and that sort of thing we want to pay attention sort of thing we want to pay attention sort of thing we want to pay attention to all the data if something's gone to all the data if something's gone to all the data if something's gone through a price decline we want to through a price decline we want to through a price decline we want to understand why that is the case and understand why that is the case and understand why that is the case and whether there is some long-term secular whether there is some long-term secular whether there is some long-term secular issue that we need to pay attention to issue that we need to pay attention to issue that we need to pay attention to but if it is you know something but if it is you know something but if it is you know something temporary or whatever then for the most temporary or whatever then for the most temporary or whatever then for the most part I'll ignore it and in terms of part I'll ignore it and in terms of part I'll ignore it and in terms of places to go fishing place that I found
Questionerplaces to go fishing place that I found most productive last few years to go fishing in is in turkey and 85 percent annual inflation and everyone and their brother have an ex having exited the market in terms of foreign investors and local investors really having a very short holding period so the Turkish market is interesting because 80 percent of the entire market cap of turkey is either held by insiders or foreign institutional investors and that portion hardly trade the 20 that is held by Turkish retail and token institution turns over every nine days and so that's hyperactive and in most cases retail investors in Turkey they want to invest at 10 o'clock in the morning and make about 10 and exit at 2 pm and so Buffett says the stock market is the mechanism to transfer wealth from the active to the inactive in Turkey what I find is a lot of the
QuestionerTurkey what I find is a lot of the market participants aren't really looking at the fundamentals of the business and anytime you're you've got a four hour or eight hour window that you're trying to hold something you're not really going to be concerned about what the earnings are even next quarter out the window in Turkey there are a few businesses which are immune to the inflation either they have for example revenues in Euros or dollars or they are in in businesses where they can pass on costs like a coke bottle or something so there's a very small sliver of businesses I think inflation generally is bad news or Equity investors but there's a small sliver of businesses in Turkey which benefit from inflation or at least are neutral on it and since everything got thrown out with the bathwater those things got thrown out too and so that's the place to go
Questionerout too and so that's the place to go fishing for me
Questioneruh great question uh what businesses benefit from inflation so for example there's a there's a company in Turkey I don't own this company but they export canned and bottled fruit juices all over Europe and turkey has access to the European common market so there's no tariffs or duties in or out so this company has all their costs in Lira Turkish lira and all the revenues in U.S and so in fact what happened generally in a High inflation environment is that wages don't keep up so one of the unfortunate effects is that the Turkish people and we see the same thing here in the U.S actually because we're not seeing wages keep up with inflation we're at eight or nine percent inflation and uh last and look like wages were going up like four or five percent and so in Turkey we have a similar situation
Questionerso in Turkey we have a similar situation where the wages aren't keeping up in Euro or dollar terms every uh 10 percent decline in the Lira increases these this company's profits by three or four percent we own a Turkish airport operator they actually operate airports in eight different countries 15 different airports even the airports in Turkey their revenues are all in Euros so basically even there you know their staff and some of the expenses are in lira and they have no impact from these types of things we also own a warehouse rental company in Turkey and steel prices have an international price and concrete has an international price and City Center real estate in a major city like Istanbul has an international price and so it's Auto inflation index in the sense that those prices of those warehouses keep moving up probably in
Questionerwarehouses keep moving up probably in locks lockstep or ahead of inflation and their rents go up with inflation as well because it's written into the leases so there are a few places to play probably I would say 95 percent of the market is not investable yeah we just need a couple of ideas a year and we're good that's right um you mentioned earlier the fact that there are more ETFs and mutual funds and there are stocks in the U.S and uh um that's a sign of the move towards passive over the years there was a good question from Jim Jones who is uh uh the actual founder of the alpha challenge which we were talking about earlier and he asked how much more inefficient does the market get for each point of market share that goes to passive versus active that is above my pay grade [Laughter] no idea I think John Bogle was asked this question about the move towards
Questionerthis question about the move towards passive and at what point does it cause distortions
Otherand his answer was that we are still pretty far away from those points but I think it's getting I think when we start looking at some of the larger names the amount that is held by the different large fund houses and in ETFs or index fund and so on is pretty pretty sizable and and then you have you know you can add to the other indexers and such and then that adds to it as well yeah but it's just not an area that I pay a lot of attention to so I don't have too much Insight I can give you on that it seems like it'd be an advantage for for folks like you where you mentioned the difference between how active Traders are in turkey and there's an advantage that you get to take because you're long-term and inactive same kind of thing right that passive creates price inefficiencies
Questionerpassive creates price inefficiencies that you can then Arbitrage yeah I think it it does create that though I would say that my general sense of the United States at this point is that it's a it's quite an efficient market and it's quite inefficient or efficient no it's quite an efficient market yeah and it's a very picked over market so even though we have large amounts of passive Investments and such I don't see I don't see mispricing in the direction of undervaluation I do see mispricing in the direction of over valuation sometimes but so far at least I haven't seen anything that is helpful to the active investor in the US with what's been going on it's good not that much help so far that's great uh Quincy I see you have your hand raised
Questioneryeah thank you I think this kind of goes up what you were just speaking about but in school we're taught about the
Questionerin school we're taught about the efficient market theory um but then we see kind of these hundred plus bit movements by the market caused by a Fed announcement some kind of macroeconomic data coming out um and it kind of seems like the market is almost pricing stuff in you know on its toes or reacting more than pricing a lot of stuff in um so I was just kind of curious do you think that you know this current generation of investors those who started managing money in the last 10 to 15 years uh have been kind of blindsided by your prolonged period of free money and low rates and low rates um and it's not properly under and is underestimating kind of what lies ahead you know maybe a period of prolonged inflation or whatnot
Otheryeah I I think the way I look at it is that I don't particularly care about the market and what's going on at a index or Market level and I
Questioneron at a index or Market level and Ion at a index or Market level and I think most investors are better off ifthink most investors are better off ifthink most investors are better off if they focus in a lot morethey focus in a lot morethey focus in a lot more on individual businesses and what'son individual businesses and what'son individual businesses and what's going on with the individual businessesgoing on with the individual businessesgoing on with the individual businesses and that's whereand that's whereand that's where you can find some inefficiency so foryou can find some inefficiency so foryou can find some inefficiency so for example if you picked any random stockexample if you picked any random stockexample if you picked any random stock on the New York stock exchanges throughon the New York stock exchanges throughon the New York stock exchanges through a dart at all the stocks in the you knowa dart at all the stocks in the you knowa dart at all the stocks in the you know Stock Exchange and you just look at theStock Exchange and you just look at theStock Exchange and you just look at the 52-week range on any random stock it'll52-week range on any random stock it'll52-week range on any random stock it'll be a pretty wide range it might be likebe a pretty wide range it might be likebe a pretty wide range it might be like 50 to 100 and this will be like 50 to50 to 100 and this will be like 50 to50 to 100 and this will be like 50 to 100 in a benign environment with nothing100 in a benign environment with nothing100 in a benign environment with nothing going on you know the index has movedgoing on you know the index has movedgoing on you know the index has moved two percent a year or something it'lltwo percent a year or something it'lltwo percent a year or something it'll still be it'll you'll still see a rangestill be it'll you'll still see a rangestill be it'll you'll still see a range which is very wide and if you seewhich is very wide and if you seewhich is very wide and if you see another stock it'll be like 60 to 130another stock it'll be like 60 to 130another stock it'll be like 60 to 130 that sort of thing when you compare thatthat sort of thing when you compare thatthat sort of thing when you compare that to let's say for example the price of ato let's say for example the price of ato let's say for example the price of a home across the street and if you had a
Questionerhome across the street and if you had a realtor friend who gave you a quote on that home every day and you ask them hey what's this homework today and then what's it for tomorrow change in a year would be maybe five ten percent max it might be less than five percent in most years but if that home were listed on some Equity Exchange we would see much wider price ranges on that over the year it would behave like the NYSE stocks behave because of this larger degree of fluctuation that's the reason people like me can make a living is the market is undershooting or overshooting all the time and the fact that we have such wide ranges it's really in the nature of auction driven markets to serve of us this wider range of prices on assets that shouldn't really move that much in a year Google is a certain kind of business and six months ago to a certain kind of business and
Questionerago to a certain kind of business and six months from now it's a certain kind of business and why should the value be 50 60 percent off in those short periods especially when you're looking at long-term discounting back cash flows over the long Horizon to get the value of that business it just doesn't make much sense so to the extent that the market missed prices by underpricing a business significantly we can benefit from that by buying it and take it from there auction driven markets can serve up really really incredible valuation from time to time I had mentioned turkey and I mentioned that warehouse operator when we invested in 2019 the market cap of that company was 20 million dollars and you could have very quickly liquidated the entire portfolio or 800 million or more and paid off the 200 million of debt and you would end up with at least 600
Questioneryou would end up with at least 600 million so we were looking at something that was priced at less than four percent of liquidation value in a negotiated transaction I'm never going to be able to pick up a piece of Real Estate at even some of the most distressed situations I'm never going to be able to pick up a piece of real estate at four percent and what the market priced three and a half years ago at 20 million it prices today at 270 million in dollars so for whatever reason the market decided it's worth 13 14 times that now it's the same here warehouses and it's still undervalued and in fact what's happened is that because of all these Russians and ukrainians that have come in I think that if they were to sell their footprint today my guess is they would get and they've paid off most of the debt they would probably get somewhere
Questionerthey would probably get somewhere north of a billion maybe a billion and a half somewhere in that range uh one to one point five billion so we are at 270 million we're not at three percent anymore which are 25 yeah we're 25 so a lot more efficiently but they're still there's still some skin in the game there and yeah so that's particularly particularly the is a fun example for me because I think that the people who run that business are really good capital allocators and I think they've done a bunch of smart things the last three and a half years and I think they'll keep doing smart things so I think if I fast forward 10 or 20 years I think that business is probably in 2040 it would not surprise me if it's got a market cap of 10 billion that would not surprise me at all and focus I have is to spend all my time speaking to the UNC Flagler students
Questionerspeaking to the UNC Flagler students and not touch the stock yeah awesome
Otherand not touch the stock yeah awesome
Otherand not touch the stock yeah awesome that's uh just twiddle my thumbs for the
Otherthat's uh just twiddle my thumbs for the
Otherthat's uh just twiddle my thumbs for the next 18 years like Rip Van wrinkle I
Othernext 18 years like Rip Van wrinkle I
Othernext 18 years like Rip Van wrinkle I think I just need to go to sleep put
Otherthink I just need to go to sleep put
Otherthink I just need to go to sleep put your feet up on the desk yeah exactly
Otheryour feet up on the desk yeah exactly
Otheryour feet up on the desk yeah exactly yeah yeah so that's a that's an
Otheryeah yeah so that's a that's an
Otheryeah yeah so that's a that's an interesting point about how the market
Otherinteresting point about how the market
Otherinteresting point about how the market is pricing Securities uh very often
Otheris pricing Securities uh very often
Otheris pricing Securities uh very often um but that's not a true reflection of
Otherum but that's not a true reflection of
Otherum but that's not a true reflection of value
Othervalue
Othervalue um how often do you look at your p l and
Otherum how often do you look at your p l and
Otherum how often do you look at your p l and how long how often should managers on
Otherhow long how often should managers on
Otherhow long how often should managers on average
Otheraverage
Otheraverage look at their p l and you know does it
Otherlook at their p l and you know does it
Otherlook at their p l and you know does it cause bad behavior when they look at it
Othercause bad behavior when they look at it
Othercause bad behavior when they look at it on a daily basis I think so one of my
Otheron a daily basis I think so one of my
Otheron a daily basis I think so one of my one of my principles is that when you
Otherone of my principles is that when you
Otherone of my principles is that when you find yourself at the bottom of a deep
Otherfind yourself at the bottom of a deep
Otherfind yourself at the bottom of a deep well you need to have a rope
Otherwell you need to have a rope
Otherwell you need to have a rope to get out what I mean by that is that
Otherto get out what I mean by that is that
Otherto get out what I mean by that is that so if I go back to
Otherso if I go back to
Otherso if I go back to 2008 and 09 so at that time
Other2008 and 09 so at that time
Other2008 and 09 so at that time I think was down like 65 67 percent on
OtherI think was down like 65 67 percent on
OtherI think was down like 65 67 percent on the Peak from the peak in 2007
Otherthe Peak from the peak in 2007
Otherthe Peak from the peak in 2007 to the bottom in March 2009 we're
Questionerto the bottom in March 2009 we're probably down two-thirds and I used to be managing like 600 million in 2007 and I was managing less than 200 million in 2009. and everything looked beat up right and so what I did I think the Rope I used at that time was I just created a spreadsheet which showed me what these businesses were worth and what the portfolio was worth and the portfolio is actually worth more than 600 million and so I didn't fixate on all you know the market value is so much and this and that because again we're not looking for the market to instruct us we have other plays to get instructed as you said and I think from March 2009 to December 2009 the funds were up like 135 and they kept going after that because we could just see we could see the businesses and we could see what it's worth even when we looked at this business in Turkey erasers
Questionerbusiness in Turkey erasers at 20 million I did all the due diligence I couldn't come up with a valid reason I asked myself whether the guys were Crooks whether the everything was fraudulent whether those places actually existed I went and visited all the warehouses and I met the management and they look like perfectly honest people to me and so I couldn't find anything wrong with it and so we're not going to use the stock price to instruct us we're going to use fundamentals to instruct us
Questionerso how often do you look at your p l uh
Warrenyeah I don't fixate on stock prices I think that if I'm not traveling or something I'll probably look at stuff once a day or a couple of times a day but sometimes I may not get to looking at valuations or whatever or even stock prices for one or more days at a time I usually try to at least take a peek once a day we
Ted Weschlerto at least take a peek once a day we don't have too many positions most of our funds have only eight or nine stocks yeah so it's pretty easy to tell what's going on
Questionergotcha you are a philanthropist and I would say that one of the more valuable things that you have beyond your net worth is your checklist which you are protective of so when does that go into uh the public domain is the thing that you're giving away to society
Ted Weschleryeah we may publish it at some point but I think the we I've actually talked a fair bit about there's really no special secret sauce to my checklist I think if you saw it you might be a little bit disappointed oh it's so simple but basically the way the checklist was created was I looked at Investments that did not work out for great investors so this is a relatively easy exercise to do because we have in the US we have 13f filing so
Questionerwe have in the US we have 13f filing sowe have in the US we have 13f filing so we can tell when somebody buys somethingwe can tell when somebody buys somethingwe can tell when somebody buys something we can also tell when they sellwe can also tell when they sellwe can also tell when they sell something and we can come up with somesomething and we can come up with somesomething and we can come up with some average Buy price an average sell priceaverage Buy price an average sell priceaverage Buy price an average sell price because it's happened during the quarterbecause it's happened during the quarterbecause it's happened during the quarter so you can come up with approximatelyso you can come up with approximatelyso you can come up with approximately what somebody may have made or lostwhat somebody may have made or lostwhat somebody may have made or lost when they sold an investment so if Iwhen they sold an investment so if Iwhen they sold an investment so if I have someone like Warren Buffett forhave someone like Warren Buffett forhave someone like Warren Buffett for example It's relatively easy to come upexample It's relatively easy to come upexample It's relatively easy to come up with a list which says okay look thesewith a list which says okay look thesewith a list which says okay look these are all the businesses that Buffettare all the businesses that Buffettare all the businesses that Buffett invested in that were actually ainvested in that were actually ainvested in that were actually a realized loss at the end for example andrealized loss at the end for example andrealized loss at the end for example and the question I asked myself is thatthe question I asked myself is thatthe question I asked myself is that let's say US Air was a company thatlet's say US Air was a company thatlet's say US Air was a company that Buffett born along many years ago and itBuffett born along many years ago and itBuffett born along many years ago and it USA actually in the end did work hardUSA actually in the end did work hardUSA actually in the end did work hard because they had a preferred and suchbecause they had a preferred and suchbecause they had a preferred and such but let's say they they lost money on USbut let's say they they lost money on USbut let's say they they lost money on US Air so the question I would ask or IBMAir so the question I would ask or IBMAir so the question I would ask or IBM might be a better example right so IBM
Questionermight be a better example right so IBM
Questionerwas an example of what Buffett bought
Questionerand actually he had uh realized loss on
Questionerthat the question I would ask myself is
Questionerokay when he made the investment in IBM
Questionerwhat was the thesis and what was visible
Questioneror easily visible at that time
Questionerthat was somehow missed by this great
Questionerinvestor
Questionerand and so actually when you start
Questionerlooking at these companies and asking
Questionerthese questions it becomes really
Questionerobvious
Questionerand so
Questionerif I just stay on IBM for a second what
QuestionerIBM had done at the Time Warren bought
Questionerthis talk was that they had published
Questionerfive-year Advanced guidance clearly
Questionerstating
Questionerwhat their cash flows and revenues and
Questionertype amount of BuyBacks were likely to
Questionerbe over the next five years
Questionerand I think the mistake Warren made was
Questionerhe relied very heavily on the document
Questionerand he had no reason not to rely on that
Questionerdocument because the people who put that
Otherdocument because the people who put that document up were very high quality people they believed that document they weren't trying to snow investors or something but if one paid more attention to what was going on with the business there were some trademarks there that one could look at and and one would have seen that there were some issues there which later became a lot more significant as they went along so in that case for example there was a very strong I would say probability put on the guidance given and not as strong a perspective on some of these other things that were relevant to the company and so on and when I did a checklist for the most part we could tell relatively easily what was the factor of factors that a great mind had missed and then we just the factor that got missed we just added that to the checklist okay and once I had all these
Questionerchecklist okay and once I had all these different factors from all these different factors from all these different Investments by great investors I re-sorted them by category because they fell into a few different categories and the single largest reason for investment not working out when we looked at all the different failures was leveraged so they were they probably we have probably about 30 questions related to leverage in the checklist the second reason why the investment didn't work out was some type of a error or misunderstanding on the moat or comparative advantage of the business so that was another big category another probably 20 30 questions and the third was something related to the management of ownership in some Nuance on that front and then you get to unions and environment and other things which are more lower down but basically the two or three things that really stood out was
Questionerthree things that really stood out was which was the biggest issue the capitalism is creative destruction and all businesses are under assault all the time and so the ability of a business to withstand those constant attacks for a long period of time is more the exception than the rule and so people tend to misunderstand or misjudge if we if we look at a business like apple for example it looks Bulletproof right it's such a strong franchise such a strong following and they could raise prices significantly and people aren't going to switch to Android or anything you know it's a very strong loyalty there when I look into the future I don't see anything affecting their competitive Advantage for 10 years I think I can make a fairly strong case that it's unlikely Apple goes into decline by 2032 and such I think it might be cranking till then but I can't make that
Othercranking till then but I can't make that statement about 2042. so what looks stable for five or ten years I have no idea what happens in 15 or 20 years and the thing is if apple has a real problem by 2037 where it's already gone into significant decline that's an issue for people investing today that's a real issue and and these are difficult questions to answer and and that's why I think assessing the durability of a moat is a tough question
QuestionerManish that was a fantastic answer oh thank you so now you have the whole checklist you all see don't think I wasn't taking notes yeah a question from Jared
Questioneryeah so thanks Cameron and uh definitely appreciate you taking the time on each I think a question that I have um when we think about investment management and in particular there are alternative Investments you know I'd love to get your view on what is what is
Questionerlove to get your view on what is what is an alternative investment as a it's a pretty broad definition and then you know I think in terms of understanding where uh companies that are you know alternative asset managers currently are really concentrated on growing that asset base through retail distribution channels and we'd love to kind of get your viewpoint on is that a positive is that a negative um and ultimately if if you're a retail investor how should you be thinking about where you're putting your money from an asset management perspective
Todd Combsyeah that's a good question I people lose me when they say alternative investment because I think that's a really big tent it doesn't really say much but I would say that some of these efforts to move some of these investments into the hands of retail investors maybe good if the manager is
Greg Abelinvestors maybe good if the manager is good and the the quality of the assetsgood and the the quality of the assetsgood and the the quality of the assets and such are good if a retail investorand such are good if a retail investorand such are good if a retail investor historicallyhistoricallyhistorically did not have access to let's saydid not have access to let's saydid not have access to let's say infrastructure Investments or Class Ainfrastructure Investments or Class Ainfrastructure Investments or Class A Office Buildings and different thingsOffice Buildings and different thingsOffice Buildings and different things like that where it was much more limitedlike that where it was much more limitedlike that where it was much more limited I don't think it's so much whether theseI don't think it's so much whether theseI don't think it's so much whether these whether it's right or wrong to directwhether it's right or wrong to directwhether it's right or wrong to direct these at retail I don't think that's sothese at retail I don't think that's sothese at retail I don't think that's so much the issue I think the bigger issuemuch the issue I think the bigger issuemuch the issue I think the bigger issue I have is is the manager good are theI have is is the manager good are theI have is is the manager good are the assets good and other returns likely toassets good and other returns likely toassets good and other returns likely to be good and if those factors are metbe good and if those factors are metbe good and if those factors are met then if they are directed I think in ourthen if they are directed I think in ourthen if they are directed I think in our regulatory Frameworks there are a lot ofregulatory Frameworks there are a lot ofregulatory Frameworks there are a lot of checks and balances to protect thechecks and balances to protect thechecks and balances to protect the individual retail investor there's a lotindividual retail investor there's a lotindividual retail investor there's a lot of pieces in place thereof pieces in place thereof pieces in place there and and soand and soand and so I think that the more important thing isI think that the more important thing isI think that the more important thing is how does a manager think and how is hehow does a manager think and how is hehow does a manager think and how is he likely to do and is the risk mutedlikely to do and is the risk muted
Questionerlikely to do and is the risk muted and if those are in place then it's perfectly fine I don't see much of an issue I think even when retail investors invest in mutual funds which are holding 100 stocks how much they understand about those Holdings I think the difficult the difficulty is not in the disclosures I think the difficulty is that people don't do the work so it's not so much an issue on the investment manager side I think that there's more education needed or the retail investor that if you're going to step away from passive and such then you really need to roll up your sleeves and do the work and most retail investors aren't willing to do that so they end up in places where they shouldn't be
Otherthat makes sense thanks for that question Jared Arvin I see you have your hand raised
Questionerhi I'm monish uh really great uh uh to meet you I'm also a Clemson alumni so go
Questionermeet you I'm also a Clemson alumni so go TigersTigersTigers um my question to you is is going backum my question to you is is going backum my question to you is is going back to the uh you you were talking aboutto the uh you you were talking aboutto the uh you you were talking about that Turkish uh bottle uh manufacturerthat Turkish uh bottle uh manufacturerthat Turkish uh bottle uh manufacturer I'm just curious you know when you'reI'm just curious you know when you'reI'm just curious you know when you're looking at firms uh you know when you'relooking at firms uh you know when you'relooking at firms uh you know when you're looking for some of these like hiddenlooking for some of these like hiddenlooking for some of these like hidden gems in like Emerging Markets is there agems in like Emerging Markets is there agems in like Emerging Markets is there a specific strategy that maybe you usespecific strategy that maybe you usespecific strategy that maybe you use personally to try to uncover some ofpersonally to try to uncover some ofpersonally to try to uncover some of thesethesethese um you know companies that are good toum you know companies that are good toum you know companies that are good to invest in the long term
Todd Combswhat I did ininvest in the long term what I did ininvest in the long term what I did in Turkey was that I have a good friendTurkey was that I have a good friendTurkey was that I have a good friend who's a investment manager in turkey andwho's a investment manager in turkey andwho's a investment manager in turkey and he's he's overdosed on Graham and I'mhe's he's overdosed on Graham and I'mhe's he's overdosed on Graham and I'm trying to get him to overdose more ontrying to get him to overdose more ontrying to get him to overdose more on Monger but he comes to Omaha and he'sMonger but he comes to Omaha and he'sMonger but he comes to Omaha and he's from our side of the tent if you will Ifrom our side of the tent if you will Ifrom our side of the tent if you will I understand how he thinks because he'sunderstand how he thinks because he'sunderstand how he thinks because he's following those similar Frameworks so Ifollowing those similar Frameworks so Ifollowing those similar Frameworks so I base basically just said to him in 2018base basically just said to him in 2018base basically just said to him in 2018 that hey would you mind if we just
Ted Weschlerthat hey would you mind if we just visited companies that are in your portfolio so I wasn't interested in visiting any company in turkey that he didn't actually have an investment because I wanted to look at business that had already gone through one filter that he'd actually put dollars against it not some business that he thought might be good or he was researching or something and I found that exercise very useful because he was very knowledgeable about the businesses and I could look at the businesses and draw my own assessments about them and I continued that in 2019 we again went and visited more businesses in his portfolio and that's when we met the warehouse operator and other businesses like that so yeah I think that I'm looking I think that when I step out of the U.S when I go outside the U.S Shores governance becomes really important
Othergovernance becomes really important Integrity becomes really important a bunch of things that I take for granted in the U.S just don't apply so the odds that I would lose money in the United States public markets from outright fraud are minuscule it's happened in the past but it's never happened to me and it's unlikely to happen to me the odds I would lose money in the U.S because I'm stupid is very high so we just I think here in the US we need to protect against stupidity we don't need to protect so much against fraud I think when we go into places like turkey we have to first make sure that we have eliminated fraud risk and governance risk and then we can go into the business and such how hard is that to due diligence like I said that's why I took the stance of going in and looking at businesses that my friend already owned because I knew
Questionermy friend already owned because I knew that because when I talked to them aboutthat because when I talked to them aboutthat because when I talked to them about different management teamsdifferent management teamsdifferent management teams he's got 20 years history on the personhe's got 20 years history on the personhe's got 20 years history on the person because it's known in the community andbecause it's known in the community andbecause it's known in the community and different things that I would neverdifferent things that I would neverdifferent things that I would never uncover no matter how much I worked atuncover no matter how much I worked atuncover no matter how much I worked at it and it made it relatively easyit and it made it relatively easyit and it made it relatively easy because I could get a lot of data onbecause I could get a lot of data onbecause I could get a lot of data on these businesses I would not have thethese businesses I would not have thethese businesses I would not have the wherewithal to go into a place likewherewithal to go into a place likewherewithal to go into a place like turkey and just start running screensturkey and just start running screensturkey and just start running screens that just is a recipe for disasterthat just is a recipe for disasterthat just is a recipe for disaster
Otheryeah okay that's great uh so if anybodyyeah okay that's great uh so if anybodyyeah okay that's great uh so if anybody has another question please raise yourhas another question please raise yourhas another question please raise your hand uh I will ask one while we wait uhhand uh I will ask one while we wait uhhand uh I will ask one while we wait uh you know Buffett has chosen to compoundyou know Buffett has chosen to compoundyou know Buffett has chosen to compound his capital and then give it back athis capital and then give it back athis capital and then give it back at some point you've chosen tosome point you've chosen tosome point you've chosen to uh start your philanthropy philanthropicuh start your philanthropy philanthropicuh start your philanthropy philanthropic Endeavors while you're still alive whyEndeavors while you're still alive whyEndeavors while you're still alive why the difference
Questioneryeah and I think the thethe difference yeah and I think the thethe difference yeah and I think the the issue is that I thought that givingissue is that I thought that giving
Warrenissue is that I thought that giving money away is a lot more difficult than making it this was a notion I had about 16 years ago when I started and I think that's it's proven out I agree with that statement even more now than I did earlier and I didn't want to get to being 80 years old and then having to figure out what to do the only thing I could do at that point was write checks if my brain was still functioning that's all I could do is just write checks and and probably those checks might not go to the right places because I hadn't spent enough time looking at things so what I wanted to do was I wanted to start early not with very large amounts so I committed when I was like 42 or something to give away two percent of my net worth every and two percent is not going to put me in the poor house and hopefully we're compounding at more than two percent so
Othercompounding at more than two percent so the net Worth's actually going up every year and and I expected probably because I was doing so much work in India that I'd probably get my head handed to me for the first 10 years and that would be fine that'd be the tuition bill to play and then in the 11th year onwards I'd actually be able to make a difference and what actually ended up happening is we got Traction in a first few weeks and we hardly got our head handed to us it was really fast and the ro ro Roi the social return invested Capital that production gets in India is off the charts it's just actually worked out 10x better than I ever thought possible and so basically that 15 16 years has given me a lot of experience and knowledge and now we've been looking at scaling it scaling it up but I still won't I still am not looking at scaling it
WarrenI still am not looking at scaling it where a quarter of my net worth is going into the charity next next year or something we still we keep ramping it up but I'll keep increasing the amounts as my expiry date approaches so I used to think that I was going to leave planet Earth on June 11th 2044. and recently I found out that I'm actually leaving June 11 2054. so I suddenly got 10 more years and and I got if it's 2054 I got like 32 31 32 years left 31 and a half years left and so the good news with knowing when you're gonna exit planet Earth is then you can plan backwards and so now that I know my expiration date I know what I got to do in the next 10 years in the next 20 years and then by the time I'm getting close to six seven years left it needs to be on the Chuck Freeney plan if you guys have heard of Chuck Freeney where the idea is that one
OtherChuck Freeney where the idea is that one day before departure if I do this right
OtherJune 10th 2015 54. there should be a hundred dollars left
QuestionerI know Billy has a question but I can't not ask how did you come up with June 11 2054
Warrenwell you know anytime you want to know an answer to any question like that you just go to God Google and you go to God Google and say hey God Google can you tell me when I'm gonna God Google will tell you when you're gonna die and if God Google doesn't tell you a good answer then go to the MetLife website and they'll tell you and then so my birthday is June 12th I think it should be poetic just it's exactly one day before the birthday yeah so you can add that you can add the exact day but the year they'll give you the year yeah
Questionerthat's great uh Billy uh last question is yours
Otherum thank you very much I think it's a wonderful uh conversation you know and
Questionerwonderful uh conversation you know and uh you even have my experience in age learned quite a bit but my question really focuses on defining value investing versus growth investing you know with a lot of students here you hear that phrase um the couple of coral Iris that is does it matter whether it's growth or value considering Bill Miller one of the Great Value investors was one of the early investors in AOL which was questionable as of whether it's a growth stock which would you know to identified as so does that matter to you when you break down that or is it more of what your as you call your evaluation and your long-term um prognosis for a company is well there
Warrenare there are two sides of the same coin so I think the ideal investment is one that has a long growth Runway and even if you were to pay an expensive looking price if you are right on the
Todd Combslooking price if you are right on the runway and the growth rate and the length of time that this business can grow and compound Walmart would have been a great investment at 50 times earnings in the 70s even 100 times earnings in the 70s because just the runway was so long and you would have still had double digit returns paying a very high multiple for a business like Walmart when it was really growing a lot of course the difficulty is that it's very hard to look deep into the future like we saw with the Apple example how can we know in 1975 what Walmart looks like in 2000 for example those are really tough questions so the way we kind of hack that is we demand a large margin of safety so we say okay yeah we know that this thing could go on for a long time but if it only goes on for 10 years I still don't lose money and so that's how
Questionerstill don't lose money and so that's how you kind of hack around it but they kind of hack around it but they kind of hack around it but the number one thing to look for is great number one thing to look for is great number one thing to look for is great growing businesses that's really the growing businesses that's really the growing businesses that's really the Holy Grail even the business I invested Holy Grail even the business I invested Holy Grail even the business I invested in Turkey the warehouse operator at less in Turkey the warehouse operator at less in Turkey the warehouse operator at less than four percent of liquidation value than four percent of liquidation value than four percent of liquidation value what I'm most excited about that what I'm most excited about that what I'm most excited about that business is that when they reinvest business is that when they reinvest business is that when they reinvest capital in dollars or Euros they are not capital in dollars or Euros they are not capital in dollars or Euros they are not willing to do it at below a 25 to 35 willing to do it at below a 25 to 35 willing to do it at below a 25 to 35 percent return percent return percent return so their reinvestment and I've seen it so their reinvestment and I've seen it so their reinvestment and I've seen it from the beginning I looked at all the from the beginning I looked at all the from the beginning I looked at all the things they do these guys don't do dumb things they do these guys don't do dumb things they do these guys don't do dumb things if they can't get their money things if they can't get their money things if they can't get their money back and father-son that run it the back and father-son that run it the back and father-son that run it the father never went to college he just father never went to college he just father never went to college he just says if I can't get my money back in says if I can't get my money back in says if I can't get my money back in three years I'm not interested I prefer three years I'm not interested I prefer three years I'm not interested I prefer getting it back in one year getting it back in one year getting it back in one year and maybe two years but three years is and maybe two years but three years is and maybe two years but three years is the outer limit and they made an the outer limit and they made an the outer limit and they made an investment they put solar panels all
Greg Abelinvestment they put solar panels all there rooftops and it was 50 million of investment with 10 million a year coming back as what they were getting back in terms of the energy produced so I questioned them I said you know five years I said you disappoint me what what went on here they said we really struggled with this but they said we knew it was five years but we also know that those rates are going up quite a bit because turkey has no energy source they import everything so they said this was on the edge and it really kind of hemmed and hardly hemmed and not about it but we finally went for it actually it's a great thing because that business that they spent 50 million on they could sell it for 200 million today because it's a solar panels that were deployed 35 40 years ago are still producing power the ones that are being deployed
Otherpower the ones that are being deployed today which are much more advanced than the ones 35 years ago they may be around 60 or 70 years from now so that that Runway is incredible and so I told them glad you lowered your bar a little bit and got that done because that was a good deal and they said it was just right on the edge but we're okay
Questioneruh Manish you have been gracious with your time uh we appreciate you spending the time with us today uh giving us really great uh insightful answers appreciate that I appreciate what you've done with dakshana uh and um anytime you want to practice the Feynman method on us where you have to teach people to make yourself better we're here
Otherall right no it was a lot of fun to speak to all of you I spent three wonderful years in the Carolinas yeah and that's really amazing part of the country I think I never realized how awesome it was till I left the Carolinas
Otherawesome it was till I left the Carolinasawesome it was till I left the Carolinas and so you're in a very nice place andand so you're in a very nice place andand so you're in a very nice place and it's a great part of the world and Iit's a great part of the world and Iit's a great part of the world and I think UNC is just a great school so it'sthink UNC is just a great school so it'sthink UNC is just a great school so it's awesomeawesomeawesome
Otherawesome thank you so much Manish it wasawesome thank you so much Manish it wasawesome thank you so much Manish it was great to have you here cam thank you forgreat to have you here cam thank you forgreat to have you here cam thank you for moderating a really engaging discussionmoderating a really engaging discussionmoderating a really engaging discussion and to the audience thank you all forand to the audience thank you all forand to the audience thank you all for being here hopefully you know we'll havebeing here hopefully you know we'll havebeing here hopefully you know we'll have many more events like this and if youmany more events like this and if youmany more events like this and if you want to stay connected with us I justwant to stay connected with us I justwant to stay connected with us I just dropped in a few things in the chatdropped in a few things in the chatdropped in a few things in the chat um but please you know stay connectedum but please you know stay connectedum but please you know stay connected and again thank you so much reallyand again thank you so much reallyand again thank you so much really appreciate your time todayforeign