Other[Music][Music][Music][Music] welcome to the investor podcast I'm your
Otherwelcome to the investor podcast I'm your
Otherwelcome to the investor podcast I'm your host Di brers and today we couldn't be
Otherhost Di brers and today we couldn't be
Otherhost Di brers and today we couldn't be in better company mon P has joined us
Otherin better company mon P has joined us
Otherin better company mon P has joined us for a conversation about life and
Otherfor a conversation about life and
Otherfor a conversation about life and investing monis how are you today I'm
Otherinvesting monis how are you today I'm
Otherinvesting monis how are you today I'm doing great it's beautiful uh day in
Otherdoing great it's beautiful uh day in
Otherdoing great it's beautiful uh day in Austin and in a few weeks we'll be in
OtherAustin and in a few weeks we'll be in
OtherAustin and in a few weeks we'll be in Oma so it's wonderful that's wonderful
OtherOma so it's wonderful that's wonderful
OtherOma so it's wonderful that's wonderful to hear so m i I've interviewed I've had
Otherto hear so m i I've interviewed I've had
Otherto hear so m i I've interviewed I've had the privilege I should say of
Otherthe privilege I should say of
Otherthe privilege I should say of interviewing you a lot of times and it's
Otherinterviewing you a lot of times and it's
Otherinterviewing you a lot of times and it's always been a lot of fun and I've always
Otheralways been a lot of fun and I've always
Otheralways been a lot of fun and I've always interviewing then and then publishing
Otherinterviewing then and then publishing
Otherinterviewing then and then publishing this episode and the burky weekend and
Otherthis episode and the burky weekend and
Otherthis episode and the burky weekend and quite a few people have gotten a wind of
Otherquite a few people have gotten a wind of
Otherquite a few people have gotten a wind of that and um one of the wonderful things
Otherthat and um one of the wonderful things
Otherthat and um one of the wonderful things about get the opportunity to to
Otherabout get the opportunity to to
Otherabout get the opportunity to to interview you is that I go through all
Otherinterview you is that I go through all
Otherinterview you is that I go through all of your interviews over the past year so
Otherof your interviews over the past year so
Otherof your interviews over the past year so on YouTube channel there might be
Otheron YouTube channel there might be
Otheron YouTube channel there might be another 30 videos whatever over the past
Otheranother 30 videos whatever over the past
Otheranother 30 videos whatever over the past year so in one of those wonderful
Otheryear so in one of those wonderful
Questioneryear so in one of those wonderful interviews that you did someone said to me or some someone said uh that he was on a train ride with you and he said like he met you in Omaha then he for whatever reason he sat next to you on a train ride and it was completely confidential so I wanted to use that premise and ask you some questions that are super selfish and just ask you something about life and perhaps we get to speak about investing at some point in time who knows but uh I wanted to start out talking to you about life and man so I'll I'll get right to it here the first question is that in in '84 you sold a small stake in your business Trans Tech and uh it was like a million dollars is after tax and you turn that in that M into 13 odd million dollars in in five years or or whatnot and so you became financially independent um and I
Questionerbecame financially independent um and I think I heard you say it was it's 33 sothink I heard you say it was it's 33 sothink I heard you say it was it's 33 so yeah very young you became Financialyeah very young you became Financialyeah very young you became Financial independent how did that change yourindependent how did that change yourindependent how did that change your relationships if at all
OtherI don't thinkrelationships if at all I don't thinkrelationships if at all I don't think there was any change in thethere was any change in thethere was any change in the relationships I can think of I mean Irelationships I can think of I mean Irelationships I can think of I mean I think that my friends were the friendsthink that my friends were the friendsthink that my friends were the friends and the the family was pretty similarand the the family was pretty similarand the the family was pretty similar and same only change I can think of isand same only change I can think of isand same only change I can think of is that I could pursue a more independentthat I could pursue a more independentthat I could pursue a more independent path and and I started to think aboutpath and and I started to think aboutpath and and I started to think about that basically I think like Charliethat basically I think like Charliethat basically I think like Charlie would say you know his main driver forwould say you know his main driver forwould say you know his main driver for the wealth wasthe wealth wasthe wealth was Independence and um the money freed meIndependence and um the money freed meIndependence and um the money freed me up to really think about how I wanted toup to really think about how I wanted toup to really think about how I wanted to spend my time and what I wanted to dospend my time and what I wanted to dospend my time and what I wanted to do Etc so for example one of the things IEtc so for example one of the things IEtc so for example one of the things I did at that time was that I fired myselfdid at that time was that I fired myselfdid at that time was that I fired myself from my company the IT services companyfrom my company the IT services companyfrom my company the IT services company I was not enjoying running it and uhI was not enjoying running it and uhI was not enjoying running it and uh basically you know looked for and thenbasically you know looked for and then
Todd Combsbasically you know looked for and then hired a CEO to run it so basically I was hired a CEO to run it so basically I was hired a CEO to run it so basically I was making changes which were focused on making changes which were focused on making changes which were focused on what would give me greatest satisfaction what would give me greatest satisfaction what would give me greatest satisfaction and joy and I knew that I wanted to and joy and I knew that I wanted to and joy and I knew that I wanted to spend more time with investing and I spend more time with investing and I spend more time with investing and I wasn't even focused much at that time on wasn't even focused much at that time on wasn't even focused much at that time on managing other people's money at that managing other people's money at that managing other people's money at that time my focus was just manage my own time my focus was just manage my own time my focus was just manage my own money and I felt like there was a nice money and I felt like there was a nice money and I felt like there was a nice enough pot that I think I thought I enough pot that I think I thought I enough pot that I think I thought I could grow over time and would allow me could grow over time and would allow me could grow over time and would allow me to lead the life I wanted to leave so to lead the life I wanted to leave so to lead the life I wanted to leave so the relationships didn't change that the relationships didn't change that the relationships didn't change that much just the way I was spending my time much just the way I was spending my time much just the way I was spending my time on a day-to-day basis went through a lot on a day-to-day basis went through a lot on a day-to-day basis went through a lot of change
Questioneris it stressful for you by any means to invest other people's money I should probably have made a full disclaimer that I'm I'm in the privileged position of having invested with your money so I don't know if I should even ask you this question uh but
Questionershould even ask you this question uh but does it add stress to your life to manage money for other people because you are in a very private spal position now and so you could also just invest your own money now and perhaps not have that stress and how do you how do you think about that
Ted WeschlerI've actually never found it stressful I mean of course there are times like for example during the financial crisis we were down 65 67% from the peak you know I mean the index was down about 40% so there was a big drop we had about 600 million in the management before the financial crisis and it was down to 200 million what bothered me and I couldn't really do much about it at that time was some of the people who came in at the peak and then redeemed at the bottom and I really couldn't do much about that you know I mean it was their money and they wanted
Warrenmean it was their money and they wanted to do what whatever they wanted to doto do what whatever they wanted to doto do what whatever they wanted to do and that was unfortunate because I hadand that was unfortunate because I hadand that was unfortunate because I had no chance to make it back for them butno chance to make it back for them butno chance to make it back for them but that was a small minority you know mostthat was a small minority you know mostthat was a small minority you know most of the money stayed I think the gyrationof the money stayed I think the gyrationof the money stayed I think the gyration to theto theto the extent that people start you know makingextent that people start you know makingextent that people start you know making decisions which are counter to theirdecisions which are counter to theirdecisions which are counter to their what I think might be their bestwhat I think might be their bestwhat I think might be their best long-term interests that's unfortunatelong-term interests that's unfortunatelong-term interests that's unfortunate and I don't feel stressed about it butand I don't feel stressed about it butand I don't feel stressed about it but I'm a little sad about it can't do muchI'm a little sad about it can't do muchI'm a little sad about it can't do much about it but other than that I've neverabout it but other than that I've neverabout it but other than that I've never really found managing money to be areally found managing money to be areally found managing money to be a stressful situation at all in fact whatstressful situation at all in fact whatstressful situation at all in fact what has happened is that it has led to somehas happened is that it has led to somehas happened is that it has led to some wonderful new friendships wonderful newwonderful new friendships wonderful newwonderful new friendships wonderful new relationships and so I've been able torelationships and so I've been able torelationships and so I've been able to interact with folks that I would notinteract with folks that I would notinteract with folks that I would not have been able to interact with and alsohave been able to interact with and alsohave been able to interact with and also it's made it easier to engage with theit's made it easier to engage with theit's made it easier to engage with the businesses that we invest in so they paybusinesses that we invest in so they pay
Todd Combsbusinesses that we invest in so they pay a little bit more attention because we've got some size and so that is a little bit of an advantage so I think overall I would say the pluses outweigh the minus
Questionerhappy to to hear that I should say so I know that um you haven't been Shi of of telling students not to use Excel and but you also mentioned that during the financial crisis you had to climb up from that hole and and use Excel because you could in your Excel sheet you could see what was the intrinsic value and then you could you know look at the tickers and it would it would tell you something very different have you have you fired up Excel since the great financial crisis
Todd Combsactually I still keep that spreadsheet I still keep the spreadsheet because I think it's useful to I mean know we get quoted values on the businesses that we own but it's also useful to know what I think
Todd Combsit's also useful to know what I think might be the underlying value of the businesses that we own and so I still have very similar spreadsheet and I do update it periodically it doesn't take much time I mean it's you know we don't have we might have one or new ideas in a year and so there's not much movement but one of the reasons why that was helpful is that we had made an investment a few years back in this Turkish company where you know there was such a big gap between price and value that it was just kind of useful to understand you know what the whole thing is worth and I also needed to uh because we have so much concentration in one of the funds with that position I needed to educate our investors that Hey listen if you sell or exit please understand what you're selling right I mean you're your selling based on market
Othermean you're your selling based on market value but intrinsic value may be much different from that I think in the financial crisis the Rope was important to pull me out of a deep well and now I think it doesn't it's not really a well I'm I'm in but it's really a beacon which it's kind of like a notar which which tells me how I should think about it and like for example that particular business race Us in Turkey we own about a third of that business and I really think of it like a family business so I'm not part of the family that founded that business I'm not the part of the family that runs that business but I feel like I'm part of an extended family that has ownership of this business and asset and I think of it almost like a private position you know like like we own a a private prate business and my goal with that business is is to own it
Questionergoal with that business is is to own it forever so as long as the family that owns the business and runs the business as long as they maintain their ownership and they are the managers running the business we don't want to make any changes so that mindset I think is important and I use that mindset I try to use that mindset in some of our other positions as well because that's really the name of the game is that once you have ownership or partial ownership of a truly wonderful business that you acquired at a wonderful price you're done you know not much to do just watch paint dry go to Tokyo and have sushi like you've been known to do the good things in life Manish which period of your life have you been happiest and why
WarrenI would say I've always been a happy guy in general I've usually tried to set up my life in a manner that I'm professionally
Otherlife in a manner that I'm professionally very satisfied there have been periods in the past when I was professionally unhappy and those were tough periods I would say that the current period is as happy as I can remember any period being I it' be hard for me to calibrate but I can clearly think of two or three times in my past that were not great periods where I was out of alignment and I wasn't in a good place you know when I look back you know and I if I look back from the time I was 18 you know when I started college and so on and uh you know I'm going to be 60 in a in a few months in the 42 years there's just been a few single digit years maybe two or three single-digit years that uh weren't great but those were the periods where I made changes you know when and I was I was not happy with the situation and I took the bull by the horn and and it transformed
Questionerby the horn and and it transformed things so I haven't had that type of a you know situation in several decades so it's been great that must be wonderful and you know one letter that you refer quite a few times that's Buffett's 2022 letters where he talks about those 12 decisions that really improved the strike record so because we have this concert and I don't want to play The Greatest Hits uh I'm not going to ask about the best investments decisions but aside from your your decision to uh to sell TR Tech which other decisions have made you the biggest Improvement in terms of Happiness yeah that's a great question I've only had one employer in my life you know I only worked for one business one company it's company in Chicago called T Labs basically I had started with them in R&D and engineering and after about 2 and 1 half years I was quite unhappy with the
Otheryears I was quite unhappy with the situation we didn't really have great projects I didn't have a great manager so I was going through a lot of confidence issues and and I was a very young guy at that time really needed better mentors and uh better managers and I made a change at that time where I moved from engineering to marketing and that was a tremendous positive change really led to very euphoric period great professional satisfaction wonderful and then another period obviously was when I made the transition from trte so there have only been like uh two or three of these periods in my life where I was hitting a low point and the actions I took to get out of that low Point led to new highs and led to Great highs and so I'm one of the reasons why I think the happiness equation has worked as well as it has is because I'm always asking myself the
Warrenbecause I'm always asking myself the question are you happy are you content are you satisfied what would you like to change what would you like to do different and for example one of the changes I've made in the last few years is I try to kick the tires a lot more the businesses that we own so you know I've I've been spending more time visiting the plants or the coal mines or the coal terminals or you know the warehouses you know different things related to the different businesses that we own and I've really enjoyed that first of all it's it's helped me understand those businesses a lot better but also I regret that I I should have done more of that earlier I was a lot more of an armchair invest investor earlier that's a comfortable place to be you can miss a lot when you're an armchair investor and so basically it really helps you
Otherso basically it really helps you understand business better when you're in the field in the field in the field and you're meeting the the different and you're meeting the the different and you're meeting the the different people uh who are doing different things people uh who are doing different things people uh who are doing different things in the business and so on so I think in the business and so on so I think in the business and so on so I think that's an area I'm trying to expand in that's an area I'm trying to expand in that's an area I'm trying to expand in my life it leads to More Travel and my life it leads to More Travel and my life it leads to More Travel and things but there's a huge U there's a things but there's a huge U there's a things but there's a huge U there's a huge payoff as well which is great you huge payoff as well which is great you huge payoff as well which is great you mentioned the um the happiness equation mentioned the um the happiness equation mentioned the um the happiness equation just uh before and I wanted to to talk a just uh before and I wanted to to talk a just uh before and I wanted to to talk a bit more about that so if I if I say bit more about that so if I if I say bit more about that so if I if I say that we have two mental models so one is that we have two mental models so one is that we have two mental models so one is you you figure out what makes you you you you figure out what makes you you you you figure out what makes you you happy and then you do more of that and happy and then you do more of that and happy and then you do more of that and then you have the other mental model then you have the other mental model then you have the other mental model which is you have some things that that which is you have some things that that which is you have some things that that makes you unhappy and then you invert um makes you unhappy and then you invert um makes you unhappy and then you invert um which one would you choose and and do which one would you choose and and do which one would you choose and and do you have other mental models in terms of you have other mental models in terms of you have other mental models in terms of optimizing for happiness well I don't optimizing for happiness well I don't optimizing for happiness well I don't think it's one or the other I think you
Otherthink it's one or the other I think you have to do both one of the things a lot of humans do is they drift through life so you know you have a friend he's got he or she has some shortcoming you know sometimes loyalty overrides rationality and that can have a negative effect it's easy to be in a status quo but I think to really kind of first of all grow as a person and to have a higher degree of happiness and higher degree of satisfaction you have to take the bull by the horns so you have to be deliberate in expanding the relationships that are very healthy reach out to to you know grow them and deemphasize the ones which don't get you there right and so those those types of actions a lot of humans are not willing to take right because loyalties get in the way or other things get in the way so I'm always trying to do that I'm trying to you know like when I moved to
Questionertrying to you know like when I moved to Austin I started meeting people at my home for aam tea in the afternoon and not much maybe like couple of times a month I can only hand handle so much with humans you know so a couple of times a month I'm happy to step out of my cave and I meet someone I hadn't known or met for an hour or so I tried to pick them based on possibilities that there was there was something that was possible there you know people reach out to me uh they'd like to meet me Etc and of course I can't meet all of them but in some cases there's something intriguing about the person or the background or something I say okay you know let's take a flyer and let's meet the person right and most of the people I meet that way they been wonderful to meet most of them it still doesn't result in anything it's a one and done right because there's just uh there and
Otherright because there's just uh there and of course I already have so many relationships and friendships that there isn't that much room to keep you know adding an infinite number I'm much more better with happier with fewer relationship but deeper relationships my dad used to say that if you have one good wife and one good friend there is nothing else you need in life right and so that was the that's always the focus but these afternoons of chai with PAB have been really wonderful and they have led to some new wonderful friendships it's just a small number the ratio is small right but I'm okay with that I in fact I actually feel happy when I meet someone and I arrive at the conclusion that we probably will not have a deep friendship here because I feel like okay we explored something and that's good it's good to explore and check one off the list and uh keep the
Questionercheck one off the list and uh keep the exploring going I think I heard you on an interview where you you talked well the rumors has it that the Asami are very good that that's that's what I'm told if you if you find yourself in Austin Stig we will have aam te I love that and I um I am also worried because it leads me into the next uh question not about the Asam T but I am a bit worried because you said on that interview that at that point in time I think it was like 34 is people who have come to your home and you said one person you know make the cut and so we've previously uh also talked about how to you know live a a life of not telling lies and so I would imagine that more than one of those people who you had your home might have felt that you were great buddies now perhaps you let one pass the filter but perhaps the other
Questionerother person now felt that you're the best friends and so H how do you let's say another person reached out to you after not and this is not an unsolicited email this is one person being in your home getting the best assound te and then saying hey M's cannot pop by next Tuesday how do you say no to that person
Ted Weschlerone of the things I learned from Warren is you have to be really good at saying no and you have to be really direct so I've always tried to be candid with everyone and you know one person uh came recently and nice nice person but also part of it is that so I should just cave at this that I may or may not fully understand that person after one meeting so I'm making a judgment call right and the the Judgment call I'm making is based on Buffett principles and so when I had lunch with Warren I told myself Warren Charlie and you are such
QuestionerWarren Charlie and you are such fantastic judges of humans were you always a great judge of humans or is this something that you picked up over the years
Warrenso he says to me well first of all Charlie is a lot better than me but I just want to correct you Mish that I am not a great judge of humans so he said if you put me in a cocktail party with a 100 people and you gave me five or 10 minutes with each person I could tell you that three or four people are exceptional and wonderful and I could also tell you three or four people are folks that you won't have nothing to do with and the other 92 or so I really wouldn't have an opinion on right because it's not enough time to form an opinion but then he said that the the 3 or 4% who aren't great and the 92% which are unknown he puts them both in the same bucket which is harsh but it's what
Othersame bucket which is harsh but it's what you got to do right and so he says that you got to do right and so he says that you got to do right and so he says that I'll try to have a relationship with the I'll try to have a relationship with the I'll try to have a relationship with the three or four great people and ignore three or four great people and ignore three or four great people and ignore the rest so that is an unfair system the rest so that is an unfair system the rest so that is an unfair system because in that 92% are probably many because in that 92% are probably many because in that 92% are probably many good people it just didn't come through good people it just didn't come through good people it just didn't come through in that short period of time and that's in that short period of time and that's in that short period of time and that's the same thing with my assames in the 1 the same thing with my assames in the 1 the same thing with my assames in the 1 hour I am not going to be able to hour I am not going to be able to hour I am not going to be able to precisely nail down where everyone precisely nail down where everyone precisely nail down where everyone stands and what actually are the stands and what actually are the stands and what actually are the realities of you know something that realities of you know something that realities of you know something that could be a great relationship or not but could be a great relationship or not but could be a great relationship or not but just like in just like in just like in investing there are no called strikes investing there are no called strikes investing there are no called strikes because there are an infinite number of because there are an infinite number of because there are an infinite number of humans on this humans on this humans on this planet and because there are an infinite planet and because there are an infinite planet and because there are an infinite number of future assames basically you number of future assames basically you number of future assames basically you can set a high bar and there isn't much can set a high bar and there isn't much can set a high bar and there isn't much of a price you pay for not recognizing a of a price you pay for not recognizing a of a price you pay for not recognizing a great individual but there is definitely great individual but there is definitely great individual but there is definitely a huge negative price to be paid for
Othera huge negative price to be paid for letting someone in that may not be the right person to let into the Inner Circle if you will so basically it's an unfair system it's a bad system Stig but it is the system that Warren uses and who am I to try to improve on that system and so basically what I look for is when I meet somebody I reflect back after the tea I say okay what do I think and what's going on the most recent chai with PAB I had that person asked me to come to his place he lives very close to my home and he said I was happy with the Assam te but I'm really a fan of diling tea and so he says I make a great cup of Daring tea and would you come to my home so that we can have daring tea and I like the guy you know so it's not just one stick it's more than one I like the guy and I said yeah so there will be a daring tea happening even though I
Questionerdaring tea happening even though I didn't tell him this but you know daring is not my favorite and but you know it's okay if the company is good we can deal with mediocrity can I go back and then ask whenever you say that you're a harsh grader and whenever you say you want to be direct of course you also want to be kind but like do do you literally say it was great meeting you or don't you even say it wasn't great meeting or if it wasn't great meeting and and then just saying well I've enjoyed these meetings I'm not lying when I'm telling them I'm not I've not not enjoyed meeting these people because it been they go through a lot of filtering process before they show up and I learn from everyone you know so they're they're wonderful people but you know so I'm very direct with them like there was a person who came a few days back and they were interested
Otherfew days back and they were interested in going to dinner with my girlfriend and his wife right the four of us together now that adds more layers of complexity yes okay you know because she's going to ask me a bunch of questions who what where what are we doing here what's going on right and to me it was obvious I didn't even ask her it was obvious to me that's not going to be in the cards and so I just told the person you know I'm sorry you know things are too busy we can't do it all the best wonderful well thank you he he had a very gracious response you know so it was fine wonderful I think what you find is that when you're direct with people it's not like they are sad I think they appreciate the cander well thank you for for saying so and you know cuz most of us come up with bad excuses and then you know we have to remember what we what we
Questionerknow we have to remember what we what weknow we have to remember what we what we lied about last time and we paintlied about last time and we paintlied about last time and we paint ourself into a corner yeah you rememberourself into a corner yeah you rememberourself into a corner yeah you remember the book power versus Force yes exactlythe book power versus Force yes exactlythe book power versus Force yes exactly talked about it you have to choose truthtalked about it you have to choose truthtalked about it you have to choose truth over diplomacy and I think when youover diplomacy and I think when youover diplomacy and I think when you choose truth over diplomacy and you playchoose truth over diplomacy and you playchoose truth over diplomacy and you play that long game you come out ahead sothat long game you come out ahead sothat long game you come out ahead so it's ait's ait's a disservice if I am not candid I thinkdisservice if I am not candid I thinkdisservice if I am not candid I think it's it's a big negative if I'm notit's it's a big negative if I'm notit's it's a big negative if I'm not candid so I try to be as as candid whilecandid so I try to be as as candid whilecandid so I try to be as as candid while not trying to be abrasive M shiftingnot trying to be abrasive M shiftingnot trying to be abrasive M shifting gears here a bit um I want to talk aboutgears here a bit um I want to talk aboutgears here a bit um I want to talk about bridge I know that was a no punbridge I know that was a no punbridge I know that was a no pun intendent but a weird bridge to my to myintendent but a weird bridge to my to myintendent but a weird bridge to my to my next question so you uh so you teamed upnext question so you uh so you teamed upnext question so you uh so you teamed up with with Dr Jack scheme we talked aboutwith with Dr Jack scheme we talked aboutwith with Dr Jack scheme we talked about that this was 1999 is and he gave youthat this was 1999 is and he gave youthat this was 1999 is and he gave you this owner's manual and you learned thatthis owner's manual and you learned thatthis owner's manual and you learned that you like to play games you like singleyou like to play games you like singleyou like to play games you like single player games in in particular and soplayer games in in particular and soplayer games in in particular and so with that in mind i' I've learned that
Questionerwith that in mind i' I've learned that you're also really into playing bridge and um I can't help but ask you I don't know if this is an either or but why are you so much into bridge and not a game like holding poker yeah I mean I think
Otheryou know it's funny Warren Buffett he's a very good bridge player you know he plays with a former world champion as his partner a few years back maybe it was maybe a decade or more maybe two decades ago he was invited to some poker tournament and he actually you know studied up a bit try to understand how to play poker poker is a very different game and he did very terribly h in poker and he went back to his Bridge you know he was done with I have played poker a few times and I've never really gotten enough into the game to study it in depth I mean you can it's also a game of probabilities and things and you can you
Warrenprobabilities and things and you can you would know what to do better if you had a lay of the you know what cards are left and what's going on and all of that but the thing is poker has elements of luck and elements of skill clearly the elements of skill are very significant because we do end up with some world champions who have a repetitive streak of getting to the last final table and so on so there is you know what I'm saying skill is significant but there is clearly a luck element in in poker and Bridge has zero luck element it's purely a skill-based game and so that has more appealed to me it's also I think difficult to play poker without some money at stake it's kind of intertwined with the money now when I used to play bridge with Charlie that was social Bridge we played for money you know it was small Stakes you know but if I lost
Charliewas small Stakes you know but if I lost $100 or$100 or$100 or $150 Charlie was very delighted to$150 Charlie was very delighted to$150 Charlie was very delighted to collect that from me okay he was likecollect that from me okay he was likecollect that from me okay he was like truly like twinkle in his eye monish istruly like twinkle in his eye monish istruly like twinkle in his eye monish is 125 coming to me you know and likewise125 coming to me you know and likewise125 coming to me you know and likewise when I took money from Charlie there waswhen I took money from Charlie there waswhen I took money from Charlie there was some very special about that right sosome very special about that right sosome very special about that right so the small Stakes worked with socialthe small Stakes worked with socialthe small Stakes worked with social bridge and it was okay I'm okay withbridge and it was okay I'm okay withbridge and it was okay I'm okay with social bridge but I really enjoysocial bridge but I really enjoysocial bridge but I really enjoy duplicate bridge duplicate bridge is theduplicate bridge duplicate bridge is theduplicate bridge duplicate bridge is the one which is purely skill-based there'sone which is purely skill-based there'sone which is purely skill-based there's really no money in the picture we do itreally no money in the picture we do itreally no money in the picture we do it for points points really have no valuefor points points really have no valuefor points points really have no value other than psychological value andother than psychological value andother than psychological value and that's fine so I think you know we trythat's fine so I think you know we trythat's fine so I think you know we try on different gloveson different gloveson different gloves and some gloves fit well and work andand some gloves fit well and work andand some gloves fit well and work and some well gloves don't fit well andsome well gloves don't fit well andsome well gloves don't fit well and don't work I have played poker dozensdon't work I have played poker dozensdon't work I have played poker dozens and dozens of times right many times inand dozens of times right many times inand dozens of times right many times in social situations with very good friendssocial situations with very good friendssocial situations with very good friends and all of that it just never gotten
Charlieand all of that it just never gotten into the point that I wanted to do it all the time bridge I'm playing at least you know four to six hours a week of bridge and Warren is playing even more than that I think Warren is probably playing more than 10 15 hours a week
QuestionerBridge that's interesting you know I was uh I went to a barding school where you could choose um Bridge as an elective and so and it was it was great experience uh you know you you go there you go to a tournament and and there was someone like with oxygen tanks and you kind of think I got them but then you just wiped the floor with you because they're so much better than better than you and you're like yeah so it it definitely makes you makes you humble uh but it's kind of interesting because I I I I don't I'm not saying I was ever a a good bridge player perhaps I was
Questionergood bridge player perhaps I was slightly better po player but I think in slightly better po player but I think in slightly better po player but I think in terms of investing po has been help terms of investing po has been help terms of investing po has been help helpful because you really learn how to helpful because you really learn how to helpful because you really learn how to control your emotions and to lose money control your emotions and to lose money control your emotions and to lose money which I would say you probably don't do which I would say you probably don't do which I would say you probably don't do to the same exent in in brit or at least to the same exent in in brit or at least to the same exent in in brit or at least not the Ty Brit that I've been that I've not the Ty Brit that I've been that I've not the Ty Brit that I've been that I've been playing and so uh it was very it been playing and so uh it was very it been playing and so uh it was very it was very interesting to hear your take was very interesting to hear your take was very interesting to hear your take on how you just saw the two games and on how you just saw the two games and on how you just saw the two games and and Bridge was just perhaps just more and Bridge was just perhaps just more and Bridge was just perhaps just more fun and you didn't see it as a Segway fun and you didn't see it as a Segway fun and you didn't see it as a Segway into investing by by any means means so into investing by by any means means so into investing by by any means means so thank you for sharing it Manish I think thank you for sharing it Manish I think thank you for sharing it Manish I think
Otherbridge is more directly tied to bridge is more directly tied to bridge is more directly tied to probabilities because there's no luck probabilities because there's no luck probabilities because there's no luck element in investing also there's really element in investing also there's really element in investing also there's really I mean luck may come into play in the I mean luck may come into play in the I mean luck may come into play in the sense that you may you know accidentally sense that you may you know accidentally sense that you may you know accidentally end up with the great manager or end up with the great manager or end up with the great manager or something that you didn't understand at something that you didn't understand at something that you didn't understand at the outset but you know the
Questionerthe outset but you know thethe outset but you know the probabilities dominate right we we weprobabilities dominate right we we weprobabilities dominate right we we we try to ascribe probabilties to differenttry to ascribe probabilties to differenttry to ascribe probabilties to different things so it kind of works okay I'mthings so it kind of works okay I'mthings so it kind of works okay I'm going to take the Liberty here andgoing to take the Liberty here andgoing to take the Liberty here and Define a principDefine a principDefine a princip as something that's uh Timeless andas something that's uh Timeless andas something that's uh Timeless and something that's similar across allsomething that's similar across allsomething that's similar across all cultures if we use that definition whichcultures if we use that definition whichcultures if we use that definition which principles do you live by and and why doprinciples do you live by and and why doprinciples do you live by and and why do you live by those principles
Questionerwell I meanyou live by those principles well I meanyou live by those principles well I mean I think that there are some principlesI think that there are some principlesI think that there are some principles that are very front and center right Ithat are very front and center right Ithat are very front and center right I mean and a lot of these becomemean and a lot of these becomemean and a lot of these become intertwined with mental models so forintertwined with mental models so forintertwined with mental models so for example like we talked about powerexample like we talked about powerexample like we talked about power versus force and the importance of truthversus force and the importance of truthversus force and the importance of truth and the importance of cander right so Iand the importance of cander right so Iand the importance of cander right so I think that becomes a very core principlethink that becomes a very core principlethink that becomes a very core principle I think Integrity honesty TrustI think Integrity honesty TrustI think Integrity honesty Trust basically again these are attributesbasically again these are attributesbasically again these are attributes that will make the world your oyster sothat will make the world your oyster sothat will make the world your oyster so it's a huge advantage to be trustableit's a huge advantage to be trustable
Otherit's a huge advantage to be trustable and being trustable is a long game it'sand being trustable is a long game it'sand being trustable is a long game it's an infinite game it doesn't happenan infinite game it doesn't happenan infinite game it doesn't happen overnight and you have to be willing toovernight and you have to be willing toovernight and you have to be willing to play that long game to build the trustplay that long game to build the trustplay that long game to build the trust we had a high school schol intern at PABwe had a high school schol intern at PABwe had a high school schol intern at PAB funds who would help us with you knowfunds who would help us with you knowfunds who would help us with you know mailings and different things you knowmailings and different things you knowmailings and different things you know sending books to Stig and so on and whatsending books to Stig and so on and whatsending books to Stig and so on and what my assistant told me is that he wouldmy assistant told me is that he wouldmy assistant told me is that he would say I'm going to be there on Tuesday atsay I'm going to be there on Tuesday atsay I'm going to be there on Tuesday at 3:00 you know to work on stuff and then3:00 you know to work on stuff and then3:00 you know to work on stuff and then he would not show up right or he'd sayhe would not show up right or he'd sayhe would not show up right or he'd say I'm coming Wednesday at this time w'tI'm coming Wednesday at this time w'tI'm coming Wednesday at this time w't show up now she said when he does showshow up now she said when he does showshow up now she said when he does show up his performance is exceptional whenup his performance is exceptional whenup his performance is exceptional when he says he's going to show up it's a 60%he says he's going to show up it's a 60%he says he's going to show up it's a 60% probably that he's actually going toprobably that he's actually going toprobably that he's actually going to show up so I told her I never talked toshow up so I told her I never talked toshow up so I told her I never talked to him but I told her look Munger says thathim but I told her look Munger says thathim but I told her look Munger says that one of the most important traits isone of the most important traits isone of the most important traits is reliability and I said thatreliability and I said thatreliability and I said that unfortunately this young person doesn't
Warrenunfortunately this young person doesn't recognize how important it is to be reliable he can easily tell us I'm not available this week we'd be fine with it but why lead someone on right and Charlie says that one of the best educational institutes on the planet is McDonald's because McDonald's hires very young people and one of the most important traits they learn at McDonald's is reliability now they're not like us in the sense that you show you tell your boss at McDonald's you're going to show up at 3 people 3 p.m. and you don't show up by the second or third time you do that you don't have a job even the second time you do that you won't have a job right reliability is extremely important for McDonald's because they will not be able to service their customers otherwise and so the young people who work there get that work ethic which is great and I
Warrenget that work ethic which is great and I get that work ethic which is great and I think that's why Charlie thinks that think that's why Charlie thinks that think that's why Charlie thinks that they do so such a great job so I think they do so such a great job so I think they do so such a great job so I think that these are for the most part the that these are for the most part the that these are for the most part the principles that carry the most weight principles that carry the most weight principles that carry the most weight are the most basic principles you know are the most basic principles you know are the most basic principles you know trust reliability Integrity honesty trust reliability Integrity honesty trust reliability Integrity honesty truthfulness hard work diligence truthfulness hard work diligence truthfulness hard work diligence fairness you know people like to treat fairness you know people like to treat fairness you know people like to treat be treated fairly if there are people be treated fairly if there are people be treated fairly if there are people working for you they really want to working for you they really want to working for you they really want to see that things are fair and so these see that things are fair and so these see that things are fair and so these are just basic principles that you have are just basic principles that you have are just basic principles that you have to live by if you don't do those then in to live by if you don't do those then in to live by if you don't do those then in the end you'll be the loser so why do so the end you'll be the loser so why do so the end you'll be the loser so why do so few people live by those seemingly few people live by those seemingly few people live by those seemingly simple perhaps not easy simple perhaps not easy simple perhaps not easy rules because it's the payoffs don't rules because it's the payoffs don't rules because it's the payoffs don't come come come immediately so trust is something that immediately so trust is something that immediately so trust is something that pays off after pays off after pays off after decades right just think about about decades right just think about about decades right just think about about Warren and Warren and Warren and Charlie how old were they when the world Charlie how old were they when the world Charlie how old were they when the world started to trust them I mean even started to trust them I mean even
Questionerstarted to trust them I mean even outside the US he wasn't very well knownoutside the US he wasn't very well knownoutside the US he wasn't very well known Buffett wasn't very well known tillBuffett wasn't very well known tillBuffett wasn't very well known till maybe 15 years ago or 20 years ago andmaybe 15 years ago or 20 years ago andmaybe 15 years ago or 20 years ago and so it's a lifetime of doing somethingso it's a lifetime of doing somethingso it's a lifetime of doing something that eventually leads to that type of anthat eventually leads to that type of anthat eventually leads to that type of an outcome and so a lot of people areoutcome and so a lot of people areoutcome and so a lot of people are looking for shortcuts right they theylooking for shortcuts right they theylooking for shortcuts right they they don't want to play the long game I meandon't want to play the long game I meandon't want to play the long game I mean a used car dealer is just focused on leta used car dealer is just focused on leta used car dealer is just focused on let me take this sucker from the maximum Ime take this sucker from the maximum Ime take this sucker from the maximum I can and who cares about the next onecan and who cares about the next onecan and who cares about the next one he's not going to buy another car for sohe's not going to buy another car for sohe's not going to buy another car for so many years and he might never ever showmany years and he might never ever showmany years and he might never ever show up here again right so it's a veryup here again right so it's a veryup here again right so it's a very transactional one-off relationship buttransactional one-off relationship buttransactional one-off relationship but over time you end up with the shallowsover time you end up with the shallowsover time you end up with the shallows in life and people cannot see thatin life and people cannot see thatin life and people cannot see that because like I said you have to connectbecause like I said you have to connectbecause like I said you have to connect the dots and this type of likethe dots and this type of likethe dots and this type of like reliability andreliability andreliability and trustworthiness really gets built over atrustworthiness really gets built over atrustworthiness really gets built over a long period of time it's not overnightlong period of time it's not overnight
Questionerlong period of time it's not overnight you don't actually get to see theyou don't actually get to see theyou don't actually get to see the results of that relatively quicklyresults of that relatively quicklyresults of that relatively quickly that's why people don't do it becausethat's why people don't do it becausethat's why people don't do it because they want to see x equals y if I do Xthey want to see x equals y if I do Xthey want to see x equals y if I do X then y happens but here there is no XYthen y happens but here there is no XYthen y happens but here there is no XY relationship that's visible until a longrelationship that's visible until a longrelationship that's visible until a long time later and that's why some companiestime later and that's why some companiestime later and that's why some companies that should be buying back yes are notthat should be buying back yes are notthat should be buying back yes are not doing it but that's sort of like adoing it but that's sort of like adoing it but that's sort of like a different different discussion I guessdifferent different discussion I guessdifferent different discussion I guess um yeah and like I said even the bestum yeah and like I said even the bestum yeah and like I said even the best companies they play the long game rightcompanies they play the long game rightcompanies they play the long game right m I mean we are seeing right now form I mean we are seeing right now form I mean we are seeing right now for example at Boeing a situation whereexample at Boeing a situation whereexample at Boeing a situation where Boeing used to be an engineer Le companyBoeing used to be an engineer Le companyBoeing used to be an engineer Le company and after they were they merged withand after they were they merged withand after they were they merged with McDonald Douglas The Bean counters tookMcDonald Douglas The Bean counters tookMcDonald Douglas The Bean counters took over and the bean counters focused onover and the bean counters focused onover and the bean counters focused on hey can we increase earnings 10 15% ahey can we increase earnings 10 15% ahey can we increase earnings 10 15% a year and there must be fat we can cutyear and there must be fat we can cutyear and there must be fat we can cut and so for example if you look atand so for example if you look atand so for example if you look at something like the 737 aircraft which is
Questionersomething like the 737 aircraft which is their Workhorse you know basically they wanted there was a demand for 737s with more capacity and really quite frankly that airplane with that Fus large cannot grow infinitely because also to have more capacity you need bigger engines what they did they put these massive engines on the old 737 fous LGE if you really look at like the the max the engines are huge and then they extended the fuse sludge and so they basically told the Engineering Group that yes we know you are telling us that we should go to square one and design a new airplane but that's like you know 8 years 10 years and you know several billion dollars can we just modify this right and so they forced the modifications and then we had the two crashes and then we had you know the the thing the the plane is still a Cloe you know what I'm saying the max is
OtherCloe you know what I'm saying the max is a bean counter that's what happens when a bean counter that's what happens when a bean counter that's what happens when you have bean counters running you have bean counters running you have bean counters running engineering okay so you know they started not playing the long game they started not playing the long game they started not playing the long game they played the short game and now there's a played the short game and now there's a played the short game and now there's a come to Jesus at Boeing and it's come to Jesus at Boeing and it's come to Jesus at Boeing and it's terrible because quite frankly we only terrible because quite frankly we only terrible because quite frankly we only have two aircraft manufacturers in the have two aircraft manufacturers in the have two aircraft manufacturers in the world and we need boing we need boing to world and we need boing we need boing to world and we need boing we need boing to be a high quality great engineer driven be a high quality great engineer driven be a high quality great engineer driven company which builds great airplanes and company which builds great airplanes and company which builds great airplanes and plays the long game people are very plays the long game people are very plays the long game people are very willing to let Boeing make make a lot of willing to let Boeing make make a lot of willing to let Boeing make make a lot of money no problem but please play the money no problem but please play the money no problem but please play the long game you know so we see we see even long game you know so we see we see even long game you know so we see we see even businesses like Boeing which are such businesses like Boeing which are such businesses like Boeing which are such great businesses suddenly decide let's great businesses suddenly decide let's great businesses suddenly decide let's cut Corners I want to read books the way cut Corners I want to read books the way cut Corners I want to read books the way that that you do and what do I mean by that that you do and what do I mean by that that you do and what do I mean by that I remember we had a conversation a that I remember we had a conversation a that I remember we had a conversation a few years back and you said that if you few years back and you said that if you
Questionerfew years back and you said that if you don't find a book interesting you just don't find a book interesting you just don't find a book interesting you just just like a stock if it's like too much just like a stock if it's like too much just like a stock if it's like too much debt whatever like you just stop reading debt whatever like you just stop reading debt whatever like you just stop reading it and I um I'm practicing that it's it and I um I'm practicing that it's it and I um I'm practicing that it's surprisingly diff ult for me not to read surprisingly diff ult for me not to read surprisingly diff ult for me not to read a book from ad to but I I am practicing a book from ad to but I I am practicing a book from ad to but I I am practicing that I wanted to ask a bit into your that I wanted to ask a bit into your that I wanted to ask a bit into your reading habits do you take notes in your reading habits do you take notes in your reading habits do you take notes in your books or do you put them into a document books or do you put them into a document books or do you put them into a document or how do you how do you process the or how do you how do you process the or how do you how do you process the information you read from books I want information you read from books I want information you read from books I want to give you some information Stig that I to give you some information Stig that I to give you some information Stig that I
Warrenhave never given in any interview ever have never given in any interview ever have never given in any interview ever I'm inrig so basically since I was in I'm inrig so basically since I was in I'm inrig so basically since I was in kindergarten all the way to finishing my kindergarten all the way to finishing my kindergarten all the way to finishing my undergrad and even you know taking grad undergrad and even you know taking grad undergrad and even you know taking grad classes and so on I never ever took classes and so on I never ever took classes and so on I never ever took notes in any classroom when Professor or notes in any classroom when Professor or notes in any classroom when Professor or teacher was teaching everyone around me teacher was teaching everyone around me teacher was teaching everyone around me is taking notes I'm just focused on is taking notes I'm just focused on is taking notes I'm just focused on listening to the person or watching listening to the person or watching
Questionerlistening to the person or watching what's going on I've never ever took notes and what I would do is okay when there's a test that's going to happen or whatever I'd go to the textbook and see okay you know we to have chapter 3 three and chapter six on the test I'd read up on those and you know we' get ready for the test right sometimes what would happen is the professor not teaching from the book at all and I'm saying oh what he talked about I'm like screwed okay I have no notes and now there's a test and I'm like kind of scrambling trying to figure out I call my friends whatever and say hey what what are we supposed to prepare here and what are we supposed to read here and whatever but I never changed that habit somehow that habit has stayed with me and I graduated near the top of my class in my undergrad and I I did well so I made it to 60
Questionerand I I did well so I made it to 60 years in life without taking notes andyears in life without taking notes andyears in life without taking notes and even when I'm reading books I mean if Ieven when I'm reading books I mean if Ieven when I'm reading books I mean if I didn't take notes in class I'm not goingdidn't take notes in class I'm not goingdidn't take notes in class I'm not going to take notes when I'm reading a bookto take notes when I'm reading a bookto take notes when I'm reading a book it's not going to happen stick so I'veit's not going to happen stick so I'veit's not going to happen stick so I've never taken any notes anywhere and Inever taken any notes anywhere and Inever taken any notes anywhere and I want to also touch on two different datawant to also touch on two different datawant to also touch on two different data points that you brought up so Bill Gatespoints that you brought up so Bill Gatespoints that you brought up so Bill Gates has a situation which is like Stig if hehas a situation which is like Stig if hehas a situation which is like Stig if he starts a book he has to finish it has tostarts a book he has to finish it has tostarts a book he has to finish it has to he's obsessive compulsive okay Charliehe's obsessive compulsive okay Charliehe's obsessive compulsive okay Charlie is not like that or was not like that atis not like that or was not like that atis not like that or was not like that at all and I remember I was talking toall and I remember I was talking toall and I remember I was talking to Tracy Brit and Tracy said that you knowTracy Brit and Tracy said that you knowTracy Brit and Tracy said that you know Warren studied Leman Brothers during theWarren studied Leman Brothers during theWarren studied Leman Brothers during the crisis I think he was looking at whethercrisis I think he was looking at whethercrisis I think he was looking at whether should make an investment there there orshould make an investment there there orshould make an investment there there or not Etc and so he read their annualnot Etc and so he read their annualnot Etc and so he read their annual reports and different things and shereports and different things and shereports and different things and she said I got the hard pages that he readsaid I got the hard pages that he readsaid I got the hard pages that he read and I looked through all the pages for
Questionerand I looked through all the pages for his notes and she said there was almost nothing there were like couple of places where there was something underlined or something but there would have been like less than five words of notes in all those 10ks that he read for Leman brothers so there was really no Record She said I was trying to figure figure out how he's thinking about it right and basically there was no record whatever he was thinking was in his head and nothing was really kind of put down on paper and sometime I think one time Burkshire did some acquisition and SEC was questioning there was some Insider stuff they were they were questioning some stuff they sent Burkshire a request saying we want to see all the staff notes for this acquisition and Monger sent them a response it said Dear Sir there are no staff there is no staff and there are no
Otherstaff there is no staff and there are nostaff there is no staff and there are no notes warm regards okay and that was thenotes warm regards okay and that was thenotes warm regards okay and that was the end ofend ofend of that it'sthat it'sthat it's fantastic yeah so uh basically I thinkfantastic yeah so uh basically I thinkfantastic yeah so uh basically I think I'm sorry to disappoint you but I'm notI'm sorry to disappoint you but I'm notI'm sorry to disappoint you but I'm not a note taker interesting well thank youa note taker interesting well thank youa note taker interesting well thank you for uh for sharing it was insightful umfor uh for sharing it was insightful umfor uh for sharing it was insightful um so on this train ride that that we areso on this train ride that that we areso on this train ride that that we are on on together here I am still going toon on together here I am still going toon on together here I am still going to to ask you a bit investing related butto ask you a bit investing related butto ask you a bit investing related but they're going to be a a little bitthey're going to be a a little bitthey're going to be a a little bit different than than perhaps what you'redifferent than than perhaps what you'redifferent than than perhaps what you're what you're used to so um no no secretwhat you're used to so um no no secretwhat you're used to so um no no secret that you have a a great uh track recordthat you have a a great uh track recordthat you have a a great uh track record but you've been handly beating the thebut you've been handly beating the thebut you've been handly beating the the S&PS&PS&P 500 um for for for two more than two500 um for for for two more than two500 um for for for two more than two decades now I'm teing myself up to askdecades now I'm teing myself up to askdecades now I'm teing myself up to ask you and I I I don't know if this isyou and I I I don't know if this isyou and I I I don't know if this is going to going to come across route orgoing to going to come across route orgoing to going to come across route or or perhaps even the opposite if if youor perhaps even the opposite if if youor perhaps even the opposite if if you started papat funds over a thousandstarted papat funds over a thousandstarted papat funds over a thousand times do you think your current tracktimes do you think your current tracktimes do you think your current track record would be better or worse than
Questionerrecord would be better or worse than what it is now if we subtract good and bad luck and please feel free to challenge that premise and say that it's already been evened out good and bad luck for for now
Questionerwell so first of all I should just preface and say that I started investing uh in the 94 95 time frame from then till about 2018 you look at any period you know looking back for till 2018 one year 5 years 10 years life whatever I beat the S&P all the different funds I managed we are behind the S&P from 2018 till now in most of the funds but we've also turned a corner I think from 2020 onwards we are again beating the S&P so we have to go a little bit longer period few more years and then I think we'll again be back to beating it over all periods it's a difficult question to answer I mean when you kind to run simulations because also
Otheryou kind to run simulations because also what has happened happened over the what has happened happened over the what has happened happened over the years is that I've learned a few things years is that I've learned a few things years is that I've learned a few things along the way right and I've changed along the way right and I've changed along the way right and I've changed some approaches along the way and so I some approaches along the way and so I some approaches along the way and so I really don't know what the answer would really don't know what the answer would really don't know what the answer would be I would think that in most of those be I would think that in most of those be I would think that in most of those scenarios we should do well we should we scenarios we should do well we should we scenarios we should do well we should we should end up with a decent record but should end up with a decent record but should end up with a decent record but it's hard to say you know I think until it's hard to say you know I think until it's hard to say you know I think until we actually because you know at the end we actually because you know at the end we actually because you know at the end of the day it's the individual names and of the day it's the individual names and of the day it's the individual names and it's a sliver of those names that lead it's a sliver of those names that lead it's a sliver of those names that lead to the outcomes yeah and and um that to the outcomes yeah and and um that to the outcomes yeah and and um that that's why I can't help but but ask that that's why I can't help but but ask that that's why I can't help but but ask that question uh you know in um in a game question uh you know in um in a game question uh you know in um in a game like poker if you play enough hands and like poker if you play enough hands and like poker if you play enough hands and hundreds of thousands of hands you can hundreds of thousands of hands you can hundreds of thousands of hands you can you can sort of like take away yeah the you can sort of like take away yeah the you can sort of like take away yeah the luck the luck element goes away the luck luck the luck element goes away the luck luck the luck element goes away the luck element goes away then you know if if I element goes away then you know if if I element goes away then you know if if I look at your as investor you know I I I
Questionerlook at your as investor you know I I I get um the letters from you and I can see different you know track records for the three funds that you have and and they were more or less started at the same time not exactly but roughly and the results are quite are quite different and and so and you are presumably as good an investor whenever you invest with those three funds and for whatever reason for example races is a a bigger position in in one of your funds than other funds which I'm personally very very happy about but like and so so you do get different results which is why I wanted to ask you about like what if we rent it a thousand times and I I don't even know how to ask that question the best possible way because you whenever you you you said you saw the do com bubble but that was also because you had made some some Investments some some private
QuestionerInvestments some some private Investments so you sort of like saw what Investments so you sort of like saw what Investments so you sort of like saw what was coming and I'm like it is is that was coming and I'm like it is is that was coming and I'm like it is is that bad luck or is that good luck that you bad luck or is that good luck that you bad luck or is that good luck that you actually knew that going into it can we actually knew that going into it can we actually knew that going into it can we even put that into a simulation can we even put that into a simulation can we even put that into a simulation can we even do the same time period like how do even do the same time period like how do even do the same time period like how do you how do you think about luck whenever you how do you think about luck whenever you how do you think about luck whenever it comes to your own track record well it comes to your own track record well it comes to your own track record well
Ted Weschlerit was a huge Advantage for PAB funds it was a huge Advantage for PAB funds it was a huge Advantage for PAB funds that I had a front row seat on I that I had a front row seat on I that I had a front row seat on I basically could see what was going to basically could see what was going to basically could see what was going to happen maybe 3 months ahead of what happen maybe 3 months ahead of what happen maybe 3 months ahead of what others could see not a lot but like you others could see not a lot but like you others could see not a lot but like you know 3 4 months and so I completely Sid know 3 4 months and so I completely Sid know 3 4 months and so I completely Sid stepped the the bubble and uh did really stepped the the bubble and uh did really stepped the the bubble and uh did really well and so part of that I think is luck well and so part of that I think is luck well and so part of that I think is luck just you know the experience I had or just you know the experience I had or just you know the experience I had or the what I the what I the what I observed we did not have the same observed we did not have the same observed we did not have the same situation in the financial crisis so situation in the financial crisis so situation in the financial crisis so when we uh had the financial crisis at when we uh had the financial crisis at when we uh had the financial crisis at that time I really couldn't see it I I
Warrenthat time I really couldn't see it I Ithat time I really couldn't see it I I didn't see it ahead of time and we paiddidn't see it ahead of time and we paiddidn't see it ahead of time and we paid the price you know we we had a we hadthe price you know we we had a we hadthe price you know we we had a we had some Investments go to zero and we had asome Investments go to zero and we had asome Investments go to zero and we had a lot of things get marked down so it'slot of things get marked down so it'slot of things get marked down so it's not perfect doesn't you know we allnot perfect doesn't you know we allnot perfect doesn't you know we all can't always have a crystal ball seeingcan't always have a crystal ball seeingcan't always have a crystal ball seeing what we're doing and like Charlie sayswhat we're doing and like Charlie sayswhat we're doing and like Charlie says you know we're old too soon and wise tooyou know we're old too soon and wise tooyou know we're old too soon and wise too late I wish I had some of the insight Ilate I wish I had some of the insight Ilate I wish I had some of the insight I have now 20 or 30 years ago you knowhave now 20 or 30 years ago you knowhave now 20 or 30 years ago you know that would give me a huge Advantage butthat would give me a huge Advantage butthat would give me a huge Advantage but it is what it is so we just you knowit is what it is so we just you knowit is what it is so we just you know take it as go as it goes I don't spendtake it as go as it goes I don't spendtake it as go as it goes I don't spend any time thinking about it the wayany time thinking about it the wayany time thinking about it the way you're suggesting I think my focus isyou're suggesting I think my focus isyou're suggesting I think my focus is okay we have a certain reality ofokay we have a certain reality ofokay we have a certain reality of positions we own assets we managepositions we own assets we managepositions we own assets we manage opportunities available and then we doopportunities available and then we doopportunities available and then we do the best we can with all of that I thinkthe best we can with all of that I thinkthe best we can with all of that I think that's just a healthy way of looking atthat's just a healthy way of looking atthat's just a healthy way of looking at I you know because of of of Charlie uhI you know because of of of Charlie uh
QuestionerI you know because of of of Charlie uh you you got all these wonderfulyou you got all these wonderfulyou you got all these wonderful questions about stories about Charliequestions about stories about Charliequestions about stories about Charlie and how you remember him and and one ofand how you remember him and and one ofand how you remember him and and one of the things that that you've mentioned inthe things that that you've mentioned inthe things that that you've mentioned in other interviews is that he's so good atother interviews is that he's so good atother interviews is that he's so good at looking forward not thinking aboutlooking forward not thinking aboutlooking forward not thinking about everything that's been that's been ineverything that's been that's been ineverything that's been that's been in the past which is just justthe past which is just justthe past which is just just wonderful um so I kind of feel bad aboutwonderful um so I kind of feel bad aboutwonderful um so I kind of feel bad about asking you this very theoreticalasking you this very theoreticalasking you this very theoretical question but again um I'm I I'm I'm notquestion but again um I'm I I'm I'm notquestion but again um I'm I I'm I'm not here playing the greatest greatest hithere playing the greatest greatest hithere playing the greatest greatest hit so let's say thatso let's say thatso let's say that um uh let's say I'm the genie coming outum uh let's say I'm the genie coming outum uh let's say I'm the genie coming out of this bottle here um monies and I I'mof this bottle here um monies and I I'mof this bottle here um monies and I I'm going to well I don't know I I was aboutgoing to well I don't know I I was aboutgoing to well I don't know I I was about to say I going to gr your wish butto say I going to gr your wish butto say I going to gr your wish but actually I'm not going to I'm going toactually I'm not going to I'm going toactually I'm not going to I'm going to tell you Manish that I have an accounttell you Manish that I have an accounttell you Manish that I have an account here and there's a 20% interest rate inhere and there's a 20% interest rate inhere and there's a 20% interest rate in perpetuity if you put money into thatperpetuity if you put money into thatperpetuity if you put money into that account but the price is that you canaccount but the price is that you can
Questioneraccount but the price is that you can never invest your own money so you can take your own money and put in this account you get 20% like a Clockwork and this is not John like this is not burn Bernie made off any kind of thing this is the real deal this is stick being the genius here so you get 20% but you cannot play the game of investing would you ever take that bet or not not even bet I would say would you ever do that knowing that you don't need the money from that 20% compounding but you perhaps love to play the game
Otheryeah actually that's a great question I do very much enjoy the game but that would be a very tempting offer I'd have to think about I mean in the sense that I mean basically it's all or none right you're suggesting it's all or none right yeah the all or none I would say that I probably take it and go all in on bridge
Otherprobably take it and go all in on bridge wonderful they'll be playing math games I remember there's a guy who invested in my fund a long time ago maybe more than 20 years ago and he said that one day he had opened Barons or something and there was some article on Burkshire this is going back you know into the early 2000s and he saw that the stock is like 70,000 and he said no company this was his thinking is's a smart guy okay he says no company on the planet is worth 70,000 per share okay he didn't know anything about Burkshire nothing about Warren Buffett and he shorted the stock okay much to his detriment okay he met me a few years after getting burnt on that short and then he actually said to me he said you know in the early 80s he said I had noticed that the US treasuries were playing 18% close to what you said okay you could have bought 30-year US treasuries 1980 or 1981 and
Questioner30-year US treasuries 1980 or 1981 and for 30 years the US government would pay you 18% a year on that bet okay and he said to me monish not only a short birkshire but I didn't take that bet okay that 18% bet now most people didn't take that bet okay and then he said to me I just want God to give me one more chance he said to me give me one more chance of 18% us treasuries and I will put everything in I promise God I'll put everything in I'll never invest in anything again so exactly what you were saying is what this guy was saying to me which would have been smart for him to do and that would have been one hell of an investment you know from 1980 to 2010 to get 18% compounded it would be would have been unbelievable with no volatility what a story M just I wanted to I wanted to preface this question by saying I wanted to ask you about giving
Questionersaying I wanted to ask you about giving away money without talking about Dasa away money without talking about Dasa away money without talking about Dasa which I I don't know if if it's even a which I I don't know if if it's even a which I I don't know if if it's even a fair a fair premise if we're good at fair a fair premise if we're good at fair a fair premise if we're good at accumulating Capital we should probably accumulating Capital we should probably accumulating Capital we should probably be accumulating Capital instead of be accumulating Capital instead of be accumulating Capital instead of spending too much time giving it away spending too much time giving it away spending too much time giving it away giving away money is very very difficult giving away money is very very difficult giving away money is very very difficult I mean it it's it's very difficult I mean it it's it's very difficult I mean it it's it's very difficult because you don't have that positive because you don't have that positive because you don't have that positive feedback l in terms of figuring out if feedback l in terms of figuring out if feedback l in terms of figuring out if if it's right or wrong and I should make if it's right or wrong and I should make if it's right or wrong and I should make all kind of disclaimers that you all kind of disclaimers that you all kind of disclaimers that you probably figured it out with with Dasa probably figured it out with with Dasa probably figured it out with with Dasa so this is like a weird a weird question so this is like a weird a weird question so this is like a weird a weird question probably I'm going to ask it anyway so probably I'm going to ask it anyway so probably I'm going to ask it anyway so assuming that you're better accumulating assuming that you're better accumulating assuming that you're better accumulating money than giving money away and you money than giving money away and you money than giving money away and you want to help Society but you take so want to help Society but you take so want to help Society but you take so much more joy in giving money away than much more joy in giving money away than much more joy in giving money away than accumula more Capital whenever you are accumula more Capital whenever you are accumula more Capital whenever you are Financial independent whatever you want Financial independent whatever you want
QuestionerFinancial independent whatever you want to call it how would you think about howto call it how would you think about howto call it how would you think about how to allocate your time
OtherI actually did notto allocate your time I actually did notto allocate your time I actually did not want to spend time giving money away Iwant to spend time giving money away Iwant to spend time giving money away I knew that I didn't believe in largeknew that I didn't believe in largeknew that I didn't believe in large inheritances and if you don't believe ininheritances and if you don't believe ininheritances and if you don't believe in large inheritance then you're going tolarge inheritance then you're going tolarge inheritance then you're going to end up with a lot of money then you onlyend up with a lot of money then you onlyend up with a lot of money then you only have one choice which is to give it awayhave one choice which is to give it awayhave one choice which is to give it away there's nothing else you can do so mythere's nothing else you can do so mythere's nothing else you can do so my focus in 2006 2007 when I was trying tofocus in 2006 2007 when I was trying tofocus in 2006 2007 when I was trying to figure this out was to find afigure this out was to find afigure this out was to find a nonprofit that I could just write checksnonprofit that I could just write checksnonprofit that I could just write checks to I didn't actually want to do the workto I didn't actually want to do the workto I didn't actually want to do the work it's very painful to do the work theit's very painful to do the work theit's very painful to do the work the first few years at dakshana took anfirst few years at dakshana took anfirst few years at dakshana took an incredible amount of time and effort getincredible amount of time and effort getincredible amount of time and effort get it off the ground there were a lot ofit off the ground there were a lot ofit off the ground there were a lot of challenges in the early days so I waschallenges in the early days so I waschallenges in the early days so I was forced to do it because the model Iforced to do it because the model Iforced to do it because the model I wanted to follow the guy who had thatwanted to follow the guy who had thatwanted to follow the guy who had that model didn't want to scale so I saidmodel didn't want to scale so I saidmodel didn't want to scale so I said okay you know then we just clone it
Otherokay you know then we just clone it because we have no other choice today I actually know of one or two nonprofits that do a really good job and so if I were facing that situation today I would look to them as assuming they could they could absorb the amounts I was looking at then I think that would be great so my natural inclination was to not be building a du or anything like that now in hindsight what has happened is dsha blew away the most optimistic goals I had for it by quite a quite a distance it just really the the ball got hit way out of the park and I never expected that I actually expected to fail at doing something in India when I'm not there Etc so DNA has enriched my life in a way that I really could not have forecast it was definitely uh in 2007 when I was starting it none of these things were on the radar none of these things were even
Otherthe radar none of these things were even possibilities you know it it went beyond those possibility that such an outlier and so now when I look back I say wow monish you are really lucky because you actually ended up with something like dsha and the people I met as a result the scholars who become such good friends and all of this stuff that's happening and I know that the real Miracles at Dua will come about in the next few decades and I'm hoping that I have a nice long life because there is so much joy in all of those stories and miracles that are happening every day so it's been really you can just say that you know my middle name is Forest okay I just you know stumbled into this stumbled into a lot of things so just like stumbled into a friendship with Charlie and playing bridge with him and taking money off him and all that and
Ted Weschlertaking money off him and all that and stumbled into some relationship with Warren so there's been so much stumbling you know but also I would say that you take some actions so that then luck can do its part if you don't take the actions luck can't do its part right so from a very selfless point of view I wanted to just thank Warren Buffett for all the things I learned from him right so the lunch I bid for there was no ulterior motive the only motivation was to see him eye to eye and say thank you so much Warren I was willing to give Warren at that time up to $2 million for that lunch we got it for much less but I felt like giving up 2 or 3% of my net worth at that time was very worthwhile in terms of a low tuition bill right now that was all the thought that was paid it added so many dimensions to my life friendship with Charlie it was not buy
Questionerfriendship with Charlie it was not buy one get one free it was buy one getone get one free it was buy one getone get one free it was buy one get infinite lunches free you it was justinfinite lunches free you it was justinfinite lunches free you it was just great so I think what I've learned is Igreat so I think what I've learned is Igreat so I think what I've learned is I think the universe if you are a goodthink the universe if you are a goodthink the universe if you are a good person working hard putting yourself inperson working hard putting yourself inperson working hard putting yourself in the right place doing the right actionsthe right place doing the right actionsthe right place doing the right actions the universe conspires to help you inthe universe conspires to help you inthe universe conspires to help you in very magical ways I truly believe thatvery magical ways I truly believe thatvery magical ways I truly believe that and I think as long as you are playingand I think as long as you are playingand I think as long as you are playing the long game playing the infinite gamethe long game playing the infinite gamethe long game playing the infinite game and trying to do the right thing thingsand trying to do the right thing thingsand trying to do the right thing things have a way of working out in a wonderfulhave a way of working out in a wonderfulhave a way of working out in a wonderful way so I I wanted to I wanted to tie away so I I wanted to I wanted to tie away so I I wanted to I wanted to tie a few things together here on that notefew things together here on that notefew things together here on that note man so um in in uh chapter six of ofman so um in in uh chapter six of ofman so um in in uh chapter six of of William Green's wonderful book Rich aWilliam Green's wonderful book Rich aWilliam Green's wonderful book Rich a wise happier I should mention chapterwise happier I should mention chapterwise happier I should mention chapter one might be even better cuz that's withone might be even better cuz that's withone might be even better cuz that's with with humanish uh chapter 6 that's withwith humanish uh chapter 6 that's withwith humanish uh chapter 6 that's with Nick and Sack and they talk about youNick and Sack and they talk about youNick and Sack and they talk about you know this thing about you know handing
Questionerknow this thing about you know handing someone a loaded gun and then you yousomeone a loaded gun and then you yousomeone a loaded gun and then you you can only treat the other person reallycan only treat the other person reallycan only treat the other person really really well and I I found that to bereally well and I I found that to bereally well and I I found that to be such a such a wonderful framework and sosuch a such a wonderful framework and sosuch a such a wonderful framework and so I you know start gifting Williams bookI you know start gifting Williams bookI you know start gifting Williams book away to different people you know andaway to different people you know andaway to different people you know and Grant has this wonderful framework of ofGrant has this wonderful framework of ofGrant has this wonderful framework of of givers takers and and matchers and whichgivers takers and and matchers and whichgivers takers and and matchers and which a lot of our listeners might be familiara lot of our listeners might be familiara lot of our listeners might be familiar with and I heard you talk about Das andwith and I heard you talk about Das andwith and I heard you talk about Das and and the idea behind you're not going toand the idea behind you're not going toand the idea behind you're not going to tell anyone like give 10% or 5% oftell anyone like give 10% or 5% oftell anyone like give 10% or 5% of whatever you you make by getting thiswhatever you you make by getting thiswhatever you you make by getting this get H asut in terms of of you knowget H asut in terms of of you knowget H asut in terms of of you know paying back to the school and helppaying back to the school and helppaying back to the school and help others you say give give give give giveothers you say give give give give giveothers you say give give give give give and if you're a giver you know beautifuland if you're a giver you know beautifuland if you're a giver you know beautiful things can can come back to you and sothings can can come back to you and sothings can can come back to you and so I've been trying in a in a very smallI've been trying in a in a very smallI've been trying in a in a very small scale to set up a at d foundation andscale to set up a at d foundation andscale to set up a at d foundation and and and whenever I do I I and I come upand and whenever I do I I and I come upand and whenever I do I I and I come up with these beautiful principles and I
Questionerwith these beautiful principles and I read your annual letters from that's and read your annual letters from that's and read your annual letters from that's and it all sounds good and people basically tell me it's a very bad way of running tell me it's a very bad way of running tell me it's a very bad way of running any kind of nonprofit and so how would any kind of nonprofit and so how would any kind of nonprofit and so how would you give a rebuttal uh to that because you give a rebuttal uh to that because you give a rebuttal uh to that because it clear work for you I would I would it clear work for you I would I would it clear work for you I would I would say that like Charlie said and we talked say that like Charlie said and we talked say that like Charlie said and we talked about McDonald's and reliability I think about McDonald's and reliability I think about McDonald's and reliability I think that if you want to get ahead in life do that if you want to get ahead in life do that if you want to get ahead in life do well in life and have a disproportional well in life and have a disproportional well in life and have a disproportional advantage in life life you want to be a advantage in life life you want to be a advantage in life life you want to be a giver you want to be reliable and being giver you want to be reliable and being giver you want to be reliable and being a giver doesn't require you to be a giver doesn't require you to be a giver doesn't require you to be wealthy we have so many poor Scholars wealthy we have so many poor Scholars wealthy we have so many poor Scholars and students at Daka who give their time and students at Daka who give their time and students at Daka who give their time to us they volunteer for us they don't to us they volunteer for us they don't to us they volunteer for us they don't have anything else to give but their have anything else to give but their have anything else to give but their time and they're very excited to give time and they're very excited to give time and they're very excited to give their time so what I'm saying is you their time so what I'm saying is you their time so what I'm saying is you don't need to be wealthy to be a giver don't need to be wealthy to be a giver don't need to be wealthy to be a giver okay you can give within within your
Otherokay you can give within within your means it doesn't need to be anything related to money right the other traits reliability truthfulness Integrity you know High empathy caring for people Etc play the long game and in the end the universe will conspire to help you in a manner that will blow you away so these the Skeptics I just think the Skeptics don't know the way the world works and you can see so many examples in history it would be difficult to come up with examples of people who were very reliable who were very honest who are very hardworking who had very high integrity and did terribly in life that'd be very difficult to come up with examples of people like that as we're nearing the end of our train ride here together Manis uh what a wonderful way of of ending uh a train ride anything you want to to add here before we round off the interview
Otherhere before we round off the interview some of my best memories in childhood were train rides in India and William green and I had a wonderful two wonderful train rides when he was in India with me he actually got he was drinking from a fire hydrant there was so many things going on it was like you know full Technic color going on so I would just say that if you get a chance to visit India anyone listening to the video if you get a chance to visit India try to take an overnight train journey and I think you will love that EXP experience the Indian government has set up a number of trains the rajani express the dantos and these go all over the country and you can catch a train at 7 or 8:00 at night and it pulls into the your destination at you know 10 or 11:00 in the morning so you don't really use lose much and you got a free hotel stay
Questionerlose much and you got a free hotel stay for the night I think that's a wonderful experience to Broad New Horizons fantastic uh man is uh thank you thank you so much for your time it was uh it was a pleasure speaking of you as always is and and thank you for playing along in this probably very different interview so so thank you so much for uh for your time it was my pleasure Stig and I look forward to seeing the edited version all right fantastic thank you bye bye
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