QuestionerMonish, welcome to the show.
OtherMayur, it's a pleasure to be here. It's been too many years, so I'm looking forward to it. Just got back from 2 weeks on the road, so I'm a little out of sorts.
QuestionerWhere were you at?
OtherSo, my family, my mom's side is from North Carolina. So, they do an annual, it's like salmon, an annual trip back to this tiny little beach called Topsail Island. It has like one road. So, we went there, saw a bunch of family, Winston-Salem. You ever been to North Carolina?
QuestionerWell, I went to Clemson, so I spent a lot of time in the Carolinas. Well, I always felt when the Clemson-Carolina game took place, everything changed. I mean, it literally like the sky color changed, and every It is just that the the whole atmosphere. There's no other day like that. I mean, there's no other football game or anything else you could go there
Questioneranything else you could go there that would give you that It was just a the the whole place felt completely different. I remember getting receiving $2 bills when I was a kid. Never seen a $2 bill, but it had two orange paw prints on them. So, I just like assumed they came That's what came on a $2 bill. Probably still have those somewhere. I don't even know the answer to this. How'd you end up in Clemson?
OtherOh, just uh very random when when my brother and I were coming to the US for for studying, we had one distant relative, and my parents asked, "Hey, the boys are coming. What schools?" This guy had done his PhD in Clemson. You know, he said, "Oh, of course they should come to Clemson." So funny. And That's how I ended up there. And I actually never realized I got parachuted in to Clemson from Dubai and India. I actually never realized a couple of
Questioneractually never realized a couple of things. One is how pretty that part of the country was till I left. Because I just assumed this was the US, and all of the US was like this. In a slightly different, you know, multiverse timeline, you would end up being agriculture guy. Like that was a that was very big ag school, right?
QuestionerSure, yeah. How'd you not end up being a farmer? That could have been a a different path for you.
OtherYeah, I mean, I I actually didn't even know what to study. People said computers are hard, so I I studied uh computer engineering, and that was that, and I just kind of drifted through. I really didn't have a good idea what I should be doing or what I should be studying. So, I was just, you know, open to suggestion. Yeah, and one of the things that happened to me at Clemson is I had a deep interest in economics,
Questionereconomics, accounting, business in general. My father was an entrepreneur, so I tried to take as many elective courses as I could in the business school. So, I used to just look at whatever I could take in the business school just because I just had an interest. And I remember I was taking um an investing class. I was like a junior or something. I was taking some investing class. It was actually I didn't realize at the time this was 1985, and you know, the markets had just started to turn, right? I mean, '82 onwards they started rise. The professor got us all a you know, student subscription to the Wall Street Journal, and then I remember we used to like he was doing these case studies like Disney, for example, you know, some of the parts. Everything was I mean, I was just surprised how cheap things were. I had a 106%
Otherhad a 106% average in that class going into the final. And so, the professor called me to his office. He said, "You know, I was really surprised. I looked you up that you're not a business major, and you're topping my class." He said, "Well, so he said, I called you here for two reasons." He says, "First, you don't need to show up to the final. You have a A." Okay, so you're exempt for the final. I said, "Okay, that's great, you know, one less uh class to worry about." And the second is he said, "I think you're in the wrong major." He said, "I don't know what kind of engineer you're going to be, but I know you'd be great at investing." My perspective at that time was that these business school students were so stupid. They were so dumb. It's my perception as a you know, 20-year-old was when I used to go and take my engineering classes, you know, I was
Questionerengineering classes, you know, I was really challenged. They were really tough classes. But the business school, it came so easy to me. It was a cakewalk, you know. So, I'd say, "I can't have a major with these guys," you know, that'd be terrible." You know, so I just said, "Well, thanks for the input, but I'm just going to stay where it is." And then, you know, after 9 or 10 years, 9 years after that, 8 years after that, is when I heard about Buffett for the first time. And then I did a pivot about 13 years after graduating. So, it's it's funny. I kind of went and caught the year around like this instead of just going straight in that way. So, that was kind of funny. I mean, that that was another like serendipitous, right?
OtherYou came to Buffett just through grabbing a book, right? I mean, I I feel like I almost remember like you're on
Questionerlike I almost remember like you're on you're on like an airplane and justyou're on like an airplane and justyou're on like an airplane and just grabbing a book or something. I mean, Igrabbing a book or something. I mean, Igrabbing a book or something. I mean, I I wonder if you end up grabbing someI wonder if you end up grabbing someI wonder if you end up grabbing some other book, maybe a romantic novel orother book, maybe a romantic novel orother book, maybe a romantic novel or something, you'd be a romance novelistsomething, you'd be a romance novelistsomething, you'd be a romance novelist at this point. I don't know, but uh it'sat this point. I don't know, but uh it'sat this point. I don't know, but uh it's funny that
QuestionerNo, I think I think it wasfunny that No, I think I think it wasfunny that No, I think I think it was that I think the data points werethat I think the data points werethat I think the data points were already there when I was doing myalready there when I was doing myalready there when I was doing my undergrad that I really liked the stuff.undergrad that I really liked the stuff.undergrad that I really liked the stuff. It's just that I had a mental block, andIt's just that I had a mental block, andIt's just that I had a mental block, and I didn't know what to do with, you know,I didn't know what to do with, you know,I didn't know what to do with, you know, going into investing or whatever. I knewgoing into investing or whatever. I knewgoing into investing or whatever. I knew thatthatthat I was on a student visa. I need to get aI was on a student visa. I need to get aI was on a student visa. I need to get a job. It would be easier as an engineerjob. It would be easier as an engineerjob. It would be easier as an engineer to get a job.to get a job.to get a job. And it's really after a few years when IAnd it's really after a few years when IAnd it's really after a few years when I realized that no, this when I especiallyrealized that no, this when I especiallyrealized that no, this when I especially read the first Buffett biography,read the first Buffett biography,read the first Buffett biography, I felt like a lot of it was speaking toI felt like a lot of it was speaking toI felt like a lot of it was speaking to who I was. I found a lot of commonality.who I was. I found a lot of commonality.who I was. I found a lot of commonality. About 8 or 9 years before I heard about
QuestionerAbout 8 or 9 years before I heard about Buffett, I had started playing bridge. And I love playing bridge. And then I find that he's even now he's, you know, playing bridge three, four nights a week. And bridge really correlates a lot with investing. I was always drawn to probabilities, math. I grew up with a entrepreneur father, so I was always, you know, around business and all that. So, there's just a mix of all of that just worked for me. You know, it's funny about the bridge topic because so, I'm 46, and I feel like there's like a line somewhere around here where the generation that's slightly older than me all the way through my parents' genera Like my parents met playing bridge, right? I have never played bridge in my life. I played like every card game. I grew up playing My grandmother called it 21, but blackjack and spades and poker and
Questionerbut blackjack and spades and poker and on and on. I love playing games. And by the way, Monish has a a request on Twitter listeners for a solid ringer bridge partner. What was the request for this playing the Swiss team or something? What was the
QuestionerYeah, yeah. So, actually I just I just spent a week in Chicago. So, the ACBL, American Contract Bridge League, has three national conferences every year in the US, spring, summer, and fall. It's the first time I went to a bridge tournament in like 20 years. I mean, I'd been, you know, busy with the family, playing online, etc. I hadn't gone to actually live bridge in a long time. So, I said, "You know what? I'm going to take a week off and just go play live bridge." And I I didn't even know whether I would like it because one of the problems with playing bridge live is it's a lot slower, you know, online
Otherit's a lot slower, you know, online everything not it's slower. You have to do it on their timing. You have to go to a particular place. And what I found is that it was a blast. I mean, I really had a great time. And I didn't have a partner. You know, so I had to do a pickup partner partnership desk. And I didn't want to there two kinds of I mean, there are many different bridge games, but you can play pairs where you and your partner play a bunch of other people and whatever, or you can play teams. And it would be sometime described, but it's a four-person team. So, I had the the partner. This guy was a good guy from New York. And then every day we were finding two others to make up our Swiss team, which is a particular kind of a game which is difficult to play online. You really have to play in person. And Swiss teams is just a blast, you
OtherAnd Swiss teams is just a blast, you know, basically you're just the format is really good. And what I felt like I said, "What would really enhance this is if I had a regular partner." Because in bridge it takes a long time to build compatibility and understand what your partner means and all of that. Can take years. So, I said, "If I can find a great partner, and then we can have a great team, you know, four people who actually play two, three times a year at these national tournaments, it would just be a blast." So, the the funny thing is what really surprised me, I have 188,000 Twitter followers. I have 50,000 followers on LinkedIn. And I have about 5,000 on Facebook. Okay? Not one person. I sent it I was shocked. I thought I'd get inundated. Okay? And this is a smart investing crowd. I mean, the people who follow me on Twitter are interested in investing.
QuestionerTwitter are interested in investing. And zero. I was just shocked at that. And uh You know, even when I go to the bridge tournaments, you see a few young Chinese kids, you know, you see 12-year-old Chinese kids, 15-year-old Chinese kids. You'd see a couple of Indian nerd kids. But then the rest of the crowd is an over 70, over 80, oxygen tank, over 90. What is the reason? Because there's other games that have translated to the younger crowd. I mean, poker certainly has had its moment. I mean a lot of interest in clearly games in general. What about bridge? I don't really understand it. I think it's such an amazing game. It's a game that you can never master in your lifetime. It's a game that would give you so much joy and pleasure. I think the thing is for the younger crowd there are so many options that weren't there for your parents. You know, the
Questionerthere for your parents. You know, the the range of options with video games and and and everything else that they can do with all the distractions of the phones and all the distractions of the phones and all that. The interest level are not there which is really sad. It's actually a really a really a really good game. It's a wonderful game and good game. It's a wonderful game and good game. It's a wonderful game and it's a game that will give you a lot of pleasure. You know, I pleasure. You know, I pleasure. You know, I was really surprised that it happened to was really surprised that it happened to was really surprised that it happened to me. I feel like Forrest Gump that me. I feel like Forrest Gump that me. I feel like Forrest Gump that I spent a few years playing bridge with I spent a few years playing bridge with I spent a few years playing bridge with Charlie and his friends. Charlie and his friends. Charlie and his friends. I have to pinch myself because that was I have to pinch myself because that was I have to pinch myself because that was a blast and a half. And one time quite a blast and a half. And one time quite a blast and a half. And one time quite accidentally accidentally accidentally I played bridge with war. The thing with I played bridge with war. The thing with I played bridge with war. The thing with bridge is that when you're playing with bridge is that when you're playing with bridge is that when you're playing with someone you really have to have an someone you really have to have an someone you really have to have an understanding, right? The conventions. understanding, right? The conventions. understanding, right? The conventions. And Warren and I start playing together And Warren and I start playing together And Warren and I start playing together online and there's a chat box. You know, online and there's a chat box. You know, online and there's a chat box. You know, you can you can chat with your partner you can you can chat with your partner
Questioneryou can you can chat with your partner and others. So I'm like really quicklyand others. So I'm like really quicklyand others. So I'm like really quickly trying to message him, trying to get histrying to message him, trying to get histrying to message him, trying to get his conventions. He's saying, "Yeah, I kindconventions. He's saying, "Yeah, I kindconventions. He's saying, "Yeah, I kind of play that. I don't play this." Andof play that. I don't play this." Andof play that. I don't play this." And this isthis isthis is and I'm saying, "I'm going to like blowand I'm saying, "I'm going to like blowand I'm saying, "I'm going to like blow this game so badly that he's never goingthis game so badly that he's never goingthis game so badly that he's never going to have want to have anything to do withto have want to have anything to do withto have want to have anything to do with me." And we actually and the funny thingme." And we actually and the funny thingme." And we actually and the funny thing is the other two people we're playingis the other two people we're playingis the other two people we're playing withwithwith had no idea that it's Warren Buffetthad no idea that it's Warren Buffetthad no idea that it's Warren Buffett playing. Okay? Because his handle isplaying. Okay? Because his handle isplaying. Okay? Because his handle is T-bone. And people don't know T-bone isT-bone. And people don't know T-bone isT-bone. And people don't know T-bone is Buffett, right?Buffett, right?Buffett, right? They do now.They do now.They do now. Oh, but weOh, but weOh, but we but we whipped we really reallybut we whipped we really reallybut we whipped we really really amazingly I didn't screw up. We didamazingly I didn't screw up. We didamazingly I didn't screw up. We did really well.really well.really well. And then 3 days later I get a messageAnd then 3 days later I get a messageAnd then 3 days later I get a message from Buffett's assistant. So when youfrom Buffett's assistant. So when youfrom Buffett's assistant. So when you play online you can go backplay online you can go backplay online you can go back and review all the hands. You can doand review all the hands. You can doand review all the hands. You can do everything. There's a record of it,everything. There's a record of it,everything. There's a record of it, right? Which you can't do live bridge.
Questionerright? Which you can't do live bridge. So I get this long email from his assistant Debbie saying "Hey, Warren really enjoyed the session with you and he was really impressed with the play and especially you know board six, you know, the way you you did the bidding and then the the kind of end play with the hands and all that." And I said, "He's got like a zillion other things to do. He's going back and reviewing the hands."
OtherCome on, T-bone was going through those and he was saying, "You know, Monish uh board four, I don't know. We may have to evict you as the partner. Your bidding was a little suspect." That's funny.
QuestionerYeah, exactly.
OtherWell, I'll try it. I I've never played but I love games in general. Leading into that, if you were to go back and and teach, I mean you I know you do a lot of student Q&A's and talks, but you know, one of the things we don't really
Questionerknow, one of the things we don't really know, one of the things we don't really teach money teach money teach money in schools in the US. It's starting to. in schools in the US. It's starting to. in schools in the US. It's starting to. I think it's like up to maybe a third of I think it's like up to maybe a third of I think it's like up to maybe a third of high schools teach some form of personal high schools teach some form of personal high schools teach some form of personal finance and investing is sort of like a finance and investing is sort of like a finance and investing is sort of like a rounding error of that, but rounding error of that, but rounding error of that, but what would your kind of idea or advice what would your kind of idea or advice what would your kind of idea or advice as you talk to what you know, your kids, as you talk to what you know, your kids, as you talk to what you know, your kids, your friends' kids, college students your friends' kids, college students your friends' kids, college students today? How do you how do you put them on today? How do you how do you put them on today? How do you how do you put them on the right path? Or if you're an the right path? Or if you're an the right path? Or if you're an administrator of Clemson, let's say the administrator of Clemson, let's say the administrator of Clemson, let's say the the president of Clemson's like, the president of Clemson's like, the president of Clemson's like, "Monish, we really got to you know, lay "Monish, we really got to you know, lay "Monish, we really got to you know, lay this out the right way." How how would this out the right way." How how would this out the right way." How how would you think about it? What would you say? you think about it? What would you say? you think about it? What would you say?
OtherCorrect age to start this is in high Correct age to start this is in high Correct age to start this is in high school. I think uh like ninth or 10th school. I think uh like ninth or 10th school. I think uh like ninth or 10th grade is just perfect. And it's really a grade is just perfect. And it's really a grade is just perfect. And it's really a big feeling of the education system that big feeling of the education system that big feeling of the education system that it's not given because it wouldn't take it's not given because it wouldn't take it's not given because it wouldn't take much time. It would not be a very long
Othermuch time. It would not be a very long curriculum or course or even a discussion, but the important thing to really get across is the power of compounding. And you know what Einstein says, the eighth wonder of the world. And and the thing about compounding is we are all taught compounding in math. You know, we understand from a mathematical point of view what it is. From a money point of view and impact on your life point of view, because it's on a log scale and because of how the numbers change over the decades no one ever goes through that. So just the simple thing about the rule of 72 about telling people, "Look, if you have a 10% return a year your money doubles every seven seven years. If you have a 7% return it doubles every 10 years. And even if you get a 7% return the the power of starting early basically it's how many doubles. That's
Warrenbasically it's how many doubles. That's you know, we we know that, but the high school kids need to know that. And what is lost in all of this is that if an 18-year-old is fully familiar with this and he knows he or she knows they have a 60 70 80-year runway. You know, you're even doing you know, like 10% a year or something or somewhere around that you could have close to 10 doubles in a lifetime. 10 doubles is 1,024. I mean whatever you save at the age of 18 is multiplied by a thousand. If you saved a thousand dollars when you were 18 that would be a million 70 years from now. And at 19 you would save some more at 20 you would save some more. So the important thing about spending less than you earn putting it into a compounding engine and not messing with it. You know, people have 401Ks. They leave jobs. They go to Hawaii. They pull all the money out.
QuestionerHawaii. They pull all the money out. They pay a penalty and then it's gone. And then by the time you get to 70 years old their 401K is $40,000. You know, or $100,000 and it it should be in the millions. This is such a simple low-hanging fruit. But there's this very obvious challenge which is 18-year-old me wants an iPhone, sick new truck, go out with my friends, I want to go on spring break, new surfboard, whatever it may be. There's the allure and seduction of the hedonic treadmill. Like there's the people that get it. So let's ignore those. That there's a certain percentage that hear that statement. They hear you talk to their high school class and they're like, "Damn it. I'm in." Like the the Buffett inoculation. They just they heard it once, they're in. But for the vast majority of everyone else you know, having some sort of like a
Questioneryou know, having some sort of like a tailor nudge behavioral system in place cuz a lot of it right now is opt-in, you know, as far as retirement. Yeah, so the first thing is it becomes opt-out. It becomes opt-out. The the the 401K money gets taken out. You don't get to see it. It goes automatically into an index if you do nothing. And you cannot take a loan against it unless it's really important and there's some real hardship. It's complicated to opt-out. I mean you just put those pieces in place and the employer match goes in and that you cannot even pull out no matter what. It's too easy to shut off the engine today. And or to not even start it. There seems to be ways that the capitalism free market could solve this presuming the government doesn't get its act together, but TBD. But also also what doesn't happen today is even when people join 401Ks whatever else
Questionerpeople join 401Ks whatever else people join 401Ks whatever else nobody really explains the log nobody really explains the log nobody really explains the log logarithmic nature of compounding. logarithmic nature of compounding. logarithmic nature of compounding. They just say, "Oh, you know, you do They just say, "Oh, you know, you do They just say, "Oh, you know, you do this and you get 10% a year or whatever this and you get 10% a year or whatever this and you get 10% a year or whatever else." And no one really connects the else." And no one really connects the else." And no one really connects the dots. dots. dots. You know, it's that piece is just left You know, it's that piece is just left You know, it's that piece is just left hanging to figure it out on your own. hanging to figure it out on your own. hanging to figure it out on your own. And even for me with I was always great And even for me with I was always great And even for me with I was always great at math and all that at math and all that at math and all that it was surprising, you know, when I it was surprising, you know, when I it was surprising, you know, when I would actually study it and I looked at would actually study it and I looked at would actually study it and I looked at it and looked at Buffett and looked at it and looked at Buffett and looked at it and looked at Buffett and looked at what he had been doing. It was a what he had been doing. It was a what he had been doing. It was a revelation for me. revelation for me. revelation for me. And I mean I was always good at math and And I mean I was always good at math and And I mean I was always good at math and I was always good at probabilities. I was always good at probabilities. I was always good at probabilities. Always understood all that, but I still Always understood all that, but I still Always understood all that, but I still never really properly understood it. never really properly understood it. never really properly understood it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
OtherWell, let's use that as a segue. I want Well, let's use that as a segue. I want Well, let's use that as a segue. I want to hear a little bit about this big to hear a little bit about this big to hear a little bit about this big school initiative that you've been school initiative that you've been school initiative that you've been doing. Well, how long now? Is it 10 doing. Well, how long now? Is it 10 doing. Well, how long now? Is it 10 years now?
Questioneryears now?years now? No, 16 years. Wow. I was actuallyNo, 16 years. Wow. I was actuallyNo, 16 years. Wow. I was actually watching one of your YouTube videos andwatching one of your YouTube videos andwatching one of your YouTube videos and it's fun because the comment sectionsit's fun because the comment sectionsit's fun because the comment sections which for some reason on YouTube arewhich for some reason on YouTube arewhich for some reason on YouTube are actually like very pleasant now. One ofactually like very pleasant now. One ofactually like very pleasant now. One of them wasthem wasthem was a doctor who said, "I had actually beena doctor who said, "I had actually beena doctor who said, "I had actually been through this program." And I was like,through this program." And I was like,through this program." And I was like, "How amazing to read finally the you"How amazing to read finally the you"How amazing to read finally the you know, the fruits of doing this for soknow, the fruits of doing this for soknow, the fruits of doing this for so long." Uh tell the listeners what I'mlong." Uh tell the listeners what I'mlong." Uh tell the listeners what I'm talking about and give us kind of antalking about and give us kind of antalking about and give us kind of an update and overview of what's been goingupdate and overview of what's been goingupdate and overview of what's been going on there.on there.on there.
OtherYeah, actually our oldest alums now areYeah, actually our oldest alums now areYeah, actually our oldest alums now are 32 years old. And they're starting to32 years old. And they're starting to32 years old. And they're starting to make their mark which is uh really funmake their mark which is uh really funmake their mark which is uh really fun to see. But basically the idea is thatto see. But basically the idea is thatto see. But basically the idea is that we identify very poor kids who arewe identify very poor kids who arewe identify very poor kids who are really bright and we identify themreally bright and we identify themreally bright and we identify them between the age of 16 and 18.between the age of 16 and 18.between the age of 16 and 18. And we spend one or two years with themAnd we spend one or two years with themAnd we spend one or two years with them and we basically prep them for theand we basically prep them for theand we basically prep them for the engineering and medical entrance exams
Otherengineering and medical entrance examsengineering and medical entrance exams in India. And one of the things aboutin India. And one of the things aboutin India. And one of the things about India is that the engineering andIndia is that the engineering andIndia is that the engineering and medical schools are really good.medical schools are really good.medical schools are really good. They are run by the government and theyThey are run by the government and theyThey are run by the government and they are pretty much almost free to attend.are pretty much almost free to attend.are pretty much almost free to attend. Basically very heavy government subsidy.Basically very heavy government subsidy.Basically very heavy government subsidy. But getting into those schools is reallyBut getting into those schools is reallyBut getting into those schools is really hard. It's very competitive. So forhard. It's very competitive. So forhard. It's very competitive. So for example, the IITs, you know, Bill Gatesexample, the IITs, you know, Bill Gatesexample, the IITs, you know, Bill Gates says that if he was only allowed tosays that if he was only allowed tosays that if he was only allowed to recruit from one school he would onlyrecruit from one school he would onlyrecruit from one school he would only recruit from the IITs. So the Indianrecruit from the IITs. So the Indianrecruit from the IITs. So the Indian Institute of TechnologyInstitute of TechnologyInstitute of Technology I've worked with a couple IIT guys andI've worked with a couple IIT guys andI've worked with a couple IIT guys and they are definitely smarter and morethey are definitely smarter and morethey are definitely smarter and more capable than I am. I'll give them that.capable than I am. I'll give them that.capable than I am. I'll give them that. They negotiate every single possibleThey negotiate every single possibleThey negotiate every single possible thing in the world even when you're notthing in the world even when you're notthing in the world even when you're not even supposed to be negotiating.even supposed to be negotiating.even supposed to be negotiating. Extremely capable. Well, there's 1.3Extremely capable. Well, there's 1.3Extremely capable. Well, there's 1.3 million kids, 18-year-olds who take thatmillion kids, 18-year-olds who take thatmillion kids, 18-year-olds who take that entrance exam for 16,000 seats. So it's
Questionerentrance exam for 16,000 seats. So it's a 1.3% admit rate. And if I look at Princeton it's a 5% admit rate. Harvard is a 5% admit rate. And the thing is that they will you know, they give priority to legacies and they give priorities to all kinds of donors and whatever else is going on which now they're getting clobbered on the head by. But, the IITs are purely a quantitative measure. It doesn't matter if you are the prime minister's son or daughter or the richest person in India, whatever. No matter how much you're willing to donate, it's based on your test score on that test. That entrance exam test is the hardest test in the world. If you score 34% on that test, you have a seat at IIT. Okay, you just need to get a third correct. Kind of makes me want to take it right now. I'm a little curious to see how it's bad I would And they have negative marking. So, the
QuestionerAnd they have negative marking. So, the thing is if you get a wrong answer, they ding you. They take away a quarter point for a wrong answer. So, like 70% of test takers end up below zero.
OtherOh my god.
QuestionerThat's so demoralizing. They would have been better off just turning in the empty paper, you know, their score would be higher. But, anyway, the thing is that we identify these kids. Most of these kids are illiterate parents, kind of laborers, farmers, and so on. The parents don't even know what we're doing with the kids. And we bring them into a boarding school system so we can completely control because they don't have electricity, they don't have a desk. They don't have a computer. There's nothing. There's no infrastructure where they're at. And so, we bring them to our centers which are fully equipped. We've got the best
Otherfully equipped. We've got the best faculty, best everything. And we've We are testing is really good that we identify that they have horsepower. And then we spend 2 years prepping them for the test. And so, the the national admit rate is 1.3%. Our success rate is north of 60% and actually, if I take include the next level of schools, the NITs which are right below the IITs, it's over 90%. What is the lag time on how long they're in the program? Is it like 6 years? Is it 2 years? They are with us for 2 years and then they go into the IITs for a standard 4-year undergraduate degree. So, basically, we usually start with them at 16, we're done at 18, they finish with the IITs at 22, and then they enter the workforce. And then we go from there. And basically, they've been recruited Our kids have been recruited straight from the IIT campuses
Otherthe IIT campuses directly by Google and Microsoft anddirectly by Google and Microsoft anddirectly by Google and Microsoft and Amazon and all of these companies allAmazon and all of these companies allAmazon and all of these companies all over the world.over the world.over the world. They end up with Samsung in Korea,They end up with Samsung in Korea,They end up with Samsung in Korea, different companies in Singapore, anddifferent companies in Singapore, anddifferent companies in Singapore, and all over the place. And of course, allall over the place. And of course, allall over the place. And of course, all over India as well. These kids areover India as well. These kids areover India as well. These kids are coming fromcoming fromcoming from kind of less than $3 a daykind of less than $3 a daykind of less than $3 a day kind of family income. It's very, verykind of family income. It's very, verykind of family income. It's very, very low income. And so, they go fromlow income. And so, they go fromlow income. And so, they go from something like $1,000 a year of familysomething like $1,000 a year of familysomething like $1,000 a year of family incomeincomeincome to 150, 200,000 when they start.to 150, 200,000 when they start.to 150, 200,000 when they start. It's a huge reset. From my point ofIt's a huge reset. From my point ofIt's a huge reset. From my point of view, you know, it's a real zero toview, you know, it's a real zero toview, you know, it's a real zero to hero.hero.hero. The return on invested capital, socialThe return on invested capital, socialThe return on invested capital, social return on invested capitalreturn on invested capitalreturn on invested capital is off the charts. And one of the thingsis off the charts. And one of the thingsis off the charts. And one of the things that makes Dakshana work so wellthat makes Dakshana work so wellthat makes Dakshana work so well is it costs us about three grand to takeis it costs us about three grand to takeis it costs us about three grand to take a kid through the 2-year program.a kid through the 2-year program.a kid through the 2-year program. The boarding, lodging, and everything.The boarding, lodging, and everything.The boarding, lodging, and everything. The subsidiesThe subsidiesThe subsidies from the governmentfrom the governmentfrom the government in effect are the 25 to one match. So,in effect are the 25 to one match. So,
Otherin effect are the 25 to one match. So, our 3,000our 3,000our 3,000 unlocks about 75,000 in governmentunlocks about 75,000 in governmentunlocks about 75,000 in government subsidy because that's the cost of thesubsidy because that's the cost of thesubsidy because that's the cost of the IIT degree that the government is payingIIT degree that the government is payingIIT degree that the government is paying for.for.for. So, we are able to lift these familiesSo, we are able to lift these familiesSo, we are able to lift these families from poverty permanently. It looks likefrom poverty permanently. It looks likefrom poverty permanently. It looks like a magic bullet because we spend 3,000a magic bullet because we spend 3,000a magic bullet because we spend 3,000 and suddenly the guy is making 150,000.and suddenly the guy is making 150,000.and suddenly the guy is making 150,000. But, that's because there's anotherBut, that's because there's anotherBut, that's because there's another 75,000 of spending. So, that 25 to one75,000 of spending. So, that 25 to one75,000 of spending. So, that 25 to one matchmatchmatch is really what makes it work so well.is really what makes it work so well.is really what makes it work so well. And I think I've heard you say, youAnd I think I've heard you say, youAnd I think I've heard you say, you know, you guys are starting to be aknow, you guys are starting to be aknow, you guys are starting to be a non-trivial percentage of the IIT intakenon-trivial percentage of the IIT intakenon-trivial percentage of the IIT intake each year. How many students are kind ofeach year. How many students are kind ofeach year. How many students are kind of going through the program per year nowgoing through the program per year nowgoing through the program per year now or aggregate in total?
OtherEvery year weor aggregate in total? Every year weor aggregate in total? Every year we have about 1,000 graduates. So, we arehave about 1,000 graduates. So, we arehave about 1,000 graduates. So, we are we are takingwe are takingwe are taking aboutaboutabout 4% or so of the IIT seats currently and4% or so of the IIT seats currently and4% or so of the IIT seats currently and similar number of medical seatssimilar number of medical seatssimilar number of medical seats currently. When we get to about 12 orcurrently. When we get to about 12 orcurrently. When we get to about 12 or 13%, we'll pretty much max out. It's
Questioner13%, we'll pretty much max out. It's very competitive, you know, there are a lot of rich people with a lot of resources going after these seats with a lot of brainpower as well. We will not be able to take more than like one in eight seats or something. What's been the response from locally in India? Obviously, the communities which are involved in is probably universally positive. Has Modi reached out and been like, "Hey man, this is amazing. We got to help you out on this path. We see that you're doing uh God's work." What's been the response from government, corporations, kind of just people boots on the ground?
QuestionerWell, for for the entire 16 years, we've had a huge relationship with the government. So, we work with the largest magnet school system in India which is a government school system in rural India. We actually could not do the work if we
Otheractually could not do the work if we were not tied into them because they are really sourcing these kids in sixth grade from all over the place in India with the language and everything. Like I said, so the government actually has been very supportive. I mean, it's been a great partnership. And Dakshana, we don't really focus on uh trying to get a lot of pats on the back or whatever else. So, we just, you know, put our head down and get the work done. And we do get accolades from Modi and others and that's fine. But, it's all about the inner scorecard, right? You know, we just want to basically do our do our work and do the best we can and uh let the chips fall where they may, you know. Well, you get about another uh generation 10 years of these and you're going to have a bunch of these graduates starting to percolate through the ranks
Otherstarting to percolate through the ranks of corporate and uh government in India anyway. So, I'll just have a proprietary army of well-equipped and uh grateful
OtherYeah, and some of our kids have already dropped out of undergrad. They got funded by Y Combinator and all these, you know, top end VCs. Some are already on their second startup and so on. So, I I think in 10 or 15 years, we'll start seeing some amazing stories. You know, we're already seeing people We We have a kid at Google and when Sundar does his IO presentation, he's a part of that, you know, he's Some of those slides are done by him. So, they're already starting to make some waves which is great.
OtherWe talk a lot about startup investing here and, you know, having been doing that for a while, there's a trend maybe about half a decade ago where I really started to see a lot of companies You're seeing a lot of
Questionercompanies You're seeing a lot of companies You're seeing a lot of startups have very real traction in, you startups have very real traction in, you startups have very real traction in, you know, in India, Bangladesh, Pakistan, know, in India, Bangladesh, Pakistan, know, in India, Bangladesh, Pakistan, Africa, Latin America. And it's to the Africa, Latin America. And it's to the Africa, Latin America. And it's to the point now You know my idea I did this is point now You know my idea I did this is point now You know my idea I did this is we're going to auction off the top 100 we're going to auction off the top 100 we're going to auction off the top 100 spots. So, we're we're bringing in spots. So, we're we're bringing in spots. So, we're we're bringing in 10,000 a year. So, top 100, you get in 10,000 a year. So, top 100, you get in 10,000 a year. So, top 100, you get in no matter what, but it's going to be a no matter what, but it's going to be a no matter what, but it's going to be a blind auction. So, you know, you don't blind auction. So, you know, you don't blind auction. So, you know, you don't have to name a building. We don't want have to name a building. We don't want have to name a building. We don't want your name on the building. We'll do a your name on the building. We'll do a your name on the building. We'll do a blind auction, but we'll be honest about blind auction, but we'll be honest about blind auction, but we'll be honest about it. And to me, it seems like a much more it. And to me, it seems like a much more it. And to me, it seems like a much more a transparent way to go about these I a transparent way to go about these I a transparent way to go about these I like the pure merit base, too. That like the pure merit base, too. That like the pure merit base, too. That makes a lot of sense. makes a lot of sense. makes a lot of sense.
QuestionerNo, but I think I think your idea is is No, but I think I think your idea is is No, but I think I think your idea is is a good one. I mean, I think bottom line a good one. I mean, I think bottom line a good one. I mean, I think bottom line is that is that is that college education is a lot more college education is a lot more college education is a lot more expensive than what the tuitions you can expensive than what the tuitions you can expensive than what the tuitions you can charge and should charge. And so, it charge and should charge. And so, it charge and should charge. And so, it does need in some ways to be subsidized
Otherdoes need in some ways to be subsidized by the rich. So, yeah, you can give some quid pro quo to the rich, but I think the more straightforward and transparent you make it, the better it is. If you look back, Bill Gross, Mohamed El-Erian, trying to think who else. Soros ever having a mustache? That portfolio male portfolio managers when they had mustaches were their best performing years than when they were clean-shaven. And if you're watching this on YouTube, you see what I'm talking about. If you're watch If you're listening this on podcast, Manish has a beautiful duster right now.
QuestionerDo you find any correlation? Have you been putting up better years with than without mustache? Cuz you've been clean-shaven before, right?
OtherYeah, I actually didn't didn't have a mustache until about eight or nine years ago, maybe 10 years ago. I have never
Warrenago, maybe 10 years ago. I have never been asked that question before, Matt. So, thank you. Congratulations. We're going to have to go through the annual Christmas cards and say, "Did he have a mustache?" And then look at the returns for the year. And then we'll do uh we'll do a regression analysis and we'll see what the answer is. But, I feel like uh I have a pretty high hit rate on this. I would say from in in my case, there's no direct correlation. So, sorry to disappoint you in that. But, maybe we don't have enough data. We'll put some IIT interns on this and we'll see what they can come up with. We don't have enough data because the mustache years are short relative to the non-mustache years.
QuestionerSo, Well, I was Googling and you'll probably know better than I was. I was trying to find some uh pictures of Warren Buffett or Charlie if they ever
QuestionerWarren Buffett or Charlie if they ever had a mustache. And I don't think they had a mustache. And I don't think they had a mustache. And I don't think they have. They're Yeah, Charlie and Warren, have. They're Yeah, Charlie and Warren, have. They're Yeah, Charlie and Warren, there was only one time and Warren went there was only one time and Warren went there was only one time and Warren went to some kind of a surgery and he was in to some kind of a surgery and he was in to some kind of a surgery and he was in the hospital for two, three weeks where the hospital for two, three weeks where the hospital for two, three weeks where he actually grew a beard. And that's the he actually grew a beard. And that's the he actually grew a beard. And that's the only time when he didn't shave, you only time when he didn't shave, you only time when he didn't shave, you know. But, and Charlie, I've never seen know. But, and Charlie, I've never seen know. But, and Charlie, I've never seen that. that. that. That's probably when Berkshire paid That's probably when Berkshire paid That's probably when Berkshire paid their one and only dividend, too, right? their one and only dividend, too, right? their one and only dividend, too, right? He's like in the hospital, came back, He's like in the hospital, came back, He's like in the hospital, came back, he's like, "What's going on here? I got he's like, "What's going on here? I got he's like, "What's going on here? I got a beard. You guys are paying dividends?" a beard. You guys are paying dividends?" a beard. You guys are paying dividends?"
OtherWell, I figured we would start, you Well, I figured we would start, you Well, I figured we would start, you know, you like Manish, there's some know, you like Manish, there's some know, you like Manish, there's some non-consensus views. One of my favorite non-consensus views. One of my favorite non-consensus views. One of my favorite Twitter threads that we ask people in Twitter threads that we ask people in Twitter threads that we ask people in this uh uh is we say, "What is something a view is we say, "What is something a view is we say, "What is something a view that you hold personally about investing that you hold personally about investing that you hold personally about investing that the vast majority of your peers do that the vast majority of your peers do that the vast majority of your peers do not hold?" So, let's talk about like 70
Questionernot hold?" So, let's talk about like 70%, two-thirds, 75% that if you said this today, almost everyone would be like, I absolutely do not agree with you on this. Is there anything that comes to mind?
QuestionerWell, there's uh several that come to mind. Well, the first the first one that comes to mind would be investing in a place like Turkey. You know, we've I've been I've been going there for about 5 years and uh I've talked to a lot of smart investors about what I think would be a total no-brainer investment. They can't get past the country, you know, they I can't even get to the the company. The second thing which took me also a long time to figure out, you know, I realized actually this year when Buffett's letter came out is even Warren Buffett has only made most of his money on about 4% of the bets that he's made. It's one out of 25 bets
QuestionerIt's one out of 25 bets that has moved the needle for him. And that has moved the needle for him. And that has moved the needle for him. And this is Warren Buffett, you know, he doesn't make mistakes and doesn't make mistakes and doesn't make mistakes and is so particular and so careful. is so particular and so careful. is so particular and so careful. And so, investing is a kind of very And so, investing is a kind of very And so, investing is a kind of very unusual unusual unusual art where art where art where it can tolerate a very high error rate. it can tolerate a very high error rate. it can tolerate a very high error rate. But, in order for it to work with a very But, in order for it to work with a very But, in order for it to work with a very high error rate high error rate high error rate you have to have held you have to have held you have to have held the ones that you truly had high the ones that you truly had high the ones that you truly had high conviction and and truly understood for conviction and and truly understood for conviction and and truly understood for a very long time. One of the extreme a very long time. One of the extreme a very long time. One of the extreme cases of this is Shelby Davis. cases of this is Shelby Davis. cases of this is Shelby Davis. You know, the Davis Dynasty and uh You know, the Davis Dynasty and uh You know, the Davis Dynasty and uh Shelby was very early investing in Shelby was very early investing in Shelby was very early investing in international insurance companies. And international insurance companies. And international insurance companies. And he bought he bought he bought a zillion of them. I mean, like, you a zillion of them. I mean, like, you a zillion of them. I mean, like, you know, a lot lots and lots and lots of know, a lot lots and lots and lots of know, a lot lots and lots and lots of bets. They were not concentrated bets. A bets. They were not concentrated bets. A bets. They were not concentrated bets. A lot of them were less than 1% of the lot of them were less than 1% of the lot of them were less than 1% of the assets you were managing. Almost nothing assets you were managing. Almost nothing assets you were managing. Almost nothing worked. worked. worked. But, the Davis Dynasty, they they got But, the Davis Dynasty, they they got But, the Davis Dynasty, they they got and they end up with a
Warrenand they end up with a very large net worth because one worked. They were very early in AIG. And uh they just And the thing is, whether he made a great bet or a lousy bet he just kept them all. He never sold. And so, the one great bet, which was AIG, which was less than 2% of the total amount of money they had ended up becoming 80-90% of the fortune. It was a big fortune. And so, basically this particular notion about investing, which is I mean, anytime we look at a business, we have a view on what it would look like 5 years 10 years, 15 years from now. And most of the time we're going to be wrong. That's just the real candid answer on that. And sometimes you'll be right. But, to actually you know, harness and collect the fruits of that labor you have to held all the have have held all the wrongs and the rights for a very long time.
Otherlong time.long time. And that's when people get into troubleAnd that's when people get into troubleAnd that's when people get into trouble because, you know, most mutual fundsbecause, you know, most mutual fundsbecause, you know, most mutual funds they're going in and out of stocks allthey're going in and out of stocks allthey're going in and out of stocks all the time andthe time andthe time and and all of that. And And the index, youand all of that. And And the index, youand all of that. And And the index, you know, the index does so wellknow, the index does so wellknow, the index does so well because it's too dumb to know that itbecause it's too dumb to know that itbecause it's too dumb to know that it owns Microsoft and too dumb to sellowns Microsoft and too dumb to sellowns Microsoft and too dumb to sell Microsoft, too dumb to sell Google, tooMicrosoft, too dumb to sell Google, tooMicrosoft, too dumb to sell Google, too dumb to sell Facebook.dumb to sell Facebook.dumb to sell Facebook. And it just ends up in a place where,And it just ends up in a place where,And it just ends up in a place where, you know, these great businesses stickyou know, these great businesses stickyou know, these great businesses stick in the The only timein the The only timein the The only time the S&P throws a company out of thethe S&P throws a company out of thethe S&P throws a company out of the portfolioportfolioportfolio is when it's so long in the tooth thatis when it's so long in the tooth thatis when it's so long in the tooth that it's obvious.it's obvious.it's obvious. You know, they'll never throw out aYou know, they'll never throw out aYou know, they'll never throw out a Google until Google's lost itGoogle until Google's lost itGoogle until Google's lost it completely.completely.completely. You know, this concept of these powerYou know, this concept of these powerYou know, this concept of these power law investing, you know, there's twolaw investing, you know, there's twolaw investing, you know, there's two groups that really understand this. Yougroups that really understand this. Yougroups that really understand this. You know, I I I think my startup VC friendsknow, I I I think my startup VC friendsknow, I I I think my startup VC friends really get it because by definition theyreally get it because by definition theyreally get it because by definition they can't sell, right? So, they invest in 20
Questionercan't sell, right? So, they invest in 20 companies, they get that one or two is going to drive the returns of the entire fund. My quant trend followers get this because they've modeled it out and they see, hey, our batting average is like 30% but that one trade on Eurodollar or wheat or short bonds or whatever it was makes up for all the losers. And there's a couple good books on this, 100 Baggers and 101 in the Stock Market I think is hard, obviously, because of the drawdowns. Warren and Charlie have a massive concentrated holding now. And this sucker, Apple, historically, I think every decade has had at least a 50% drawdown, I think with the exception of the last one and one over I think 80. How do you think about it?
QuestionerI think the mental model you have to use is you have to to think of yourself as the founder or the entrepreneur.
Questioneras the founder or the entrepreneur. So, if I look at the Walton family,So, if I look at the Walton family,So, if I look at the Walton family, they're the only ones who've heldthey're the only ones who've heldthey're the only ones who've held Walmart from 1970 till today. They heldWalmart from 1970 till today. They heldWalmart from 1970 till today. They held it after some Sam Walton was gone.it after some Sam Walton was gone.it after some Sam Walton was gone. They held it when there were no WaltonsThey held it when there were no WaltonsThey held it when there were no Waltons running the place. There's no I don'trunning the place. There's no I don'trunning the place. There's no I don't know I think there might be one Waltonknow I think there might be one Waltonknow I think there might be one Walton on the board or something.on the board or something.on the board or something. And they've had no control over thisAnd they've had no control over thisAnd they've had no control over this business. And they've held it for thisbusiness. And they've held it for thisbusiness. And they've held it for this entire period. Why should an investorentire period. Why should an investorentire period. Why should an investor use a different framework from anuse a different framework from anuse a different framework from an entrepreneur? So, we see this all theentrepreneur? So, we see this all theentrepreneur? So, we see this all the time, right? You you see entrepreneurstime, right? You you see entrepreneurstime, right? You you see entrepreneurs have 99% of their wealth in the businesshave 99% of their wealth in the businesshave 99% of their wealth in the business they create. And they go to sleep atthey create. And they go to sleep atthey create. And they go to sleep at night very comfortable with that. Younight very comfortable with that. Younight very comfortable with that. You know, people say, well, they gotknow, people say, well, they gotknow, people say, well, they got control. Well, control is overrated.control. Well, control is overrated.control. Well, control is overrated. It's not really the control. I thinkIt's not really the control. I thinkIt's not really the control. I think that the framework we have to usethat the framework we have to usethat the framework we have to use is to think of ourselves as if we're notis to think of ourselves as if we're notis to think of ourselves as if we're not the founder, we're basically an owner or
Questionerthe founder, we're basically an owner or a partner. So, think of it as a partnership in a private enterprise, you know. And so, I think that once you make that shift where you say that, you know, this is a family business and I own 30% of the business. I'm not the founder but I own a significant stake and I understand the business then those two, you know, the investor and the entrepreneur start blending. I mean, we see this over and over. You see the IKEA guy, right? I mean, basically he put the entire company into a foundation. But, you know, 99.99% of his net worth was IKEA. We just see that with all these entrepreneurs all over the place. And they remain comfortable. If you look at the Google guys, you know, they they stepped aside but they kept their stake. Perfectly okay. Do you think Berkshire, let's say uh Warren says, all right
Warrenall right Ted and Todd, they're awesome. Monish, we we need your help, too. What do you think we should do with Apple? This is a big big stinking part of our portfolio.
QuestionerWarren's like, you know, he wouldn't say this but I don't want to have another 1999 Coke where this thing is probably expensive. I just may you know, I have to taxes. I don't want to pay taxes. This is a good business. Great franchise. What do you think you would do in their their seat at this point? Would you would you start to trim this big position or would you hold on thinking this might be the world's first $10 trillion company? I think first $5 trillion, too. I don't think we have $5 trillion yet, do we? The framework you use when you are and a large owner of Apple or let's say the founder of Apple, let's say Steve Jobs' widow, for example, is
QuestionerJobs' widow, for example, is not to do anythingnot to do anythingnot to do anything till there is a permanent seculartill there is a permanent seculartill there is a permanent secular decline.decline.decline. And we real we realize that we will notAnd we real we realize that we will notAnd we real we realize that we will not be able to cash out of the topbe able to cash out of the topbe able to cash out of the top when there is permanent secular decline.when there is permanent secular decline.when there is permanent secular decline. Everything at the end is going to goEverything at the end is going to goEverything at the end is going to go south, you know, that's just the naturesouth, you know, that's just the naturesouth, you know, that's just the nature of capitalism.of capitalism.of capitalism. I don't see anything on the horizon thatI don't see anything on the horizon thatI don't see anything on the horizon that is a concern for Appleis a concern for Appleis a concern for Apple for the next 5 or 10 years at least.for the next 5 or 10 years at least.for the next 5 or 10 years at least. And maybe beyond. So, the the simpleAnd maybe beyond. So, the the simpleAnd maybe beyond. So, the the simple math that I would do with if I was atmath that I would do with if I was atmath that I would do with if I was at Berkshire andBerkshire andBerkshire and someone, you know, Warren asked me thissomeone, you know, Warren asked me thissomeone, you know, Warren asked me this question, etc., I would just say you doquestion, etc., I would just say you doquestion, etc., I would just say you do nothing.nothing.nothing. And the way I look at it with BerkshireAnd the way I look at it with BerkshireAnd the way I look at it with Berkshire isisis they made a $2 billion investment inthey made a $2 billion investment inthey made a $2 billion investment in MidAmerican Energy, which is todayMidAmerican Energy, which is todayMidAmerican Energy, which is today approaching 100 billion. It's aapproaching 100 billion. It's aapproaching 100 billion. It's a 50-bagger.50-bagger.50-bagger. Their railroad investment is huge. AndTheir railroad investment is huge. AndTheir railroad investment is huge. And they're sitting on, you know, 130-140they're sitting on, you know, 130-140they're sitting on, you know, 130-140 billion.billion.billion. And there's 30 billion a year coming in.And there's 30 billion a year coming in.
QuestionerAnd there's 30 billion a year coming in. I mean, if you look at the entire enterprise, Apple is maybe a fifth of the pie. You know, fourth or fifth of the pie. We don't see any issues right now. Leave it alone. Focus on the money that's coming in and putting that to work. And even if you take a situation where at some point that value declines there are other engines there. There are other things going on there. So, I think that the framework has to be that you give it a very long leash, just like the Walton family and so on. Okay, you say, okay, I'm not going to tell you to sell Apple. However Turkey. Now, we love foreign markets. I spend an inordinate time talking about investing beyond our own shores. Walk us through a little bit how a guy whose first checklist rule is circle of competence, right? How did this guy get interested in Turkey of all
Questionerthis guy get interested in Turkey of all places? What was the inspiration? Wereplaces? What was the inspiration? Wereplaces? What was the inspiration? Were you just vacationing and you're like,you just vacationing and you're like,you just vacationing and you're like, man, the food here isman, the food here isman, the food here is wonderful, beautiful, great country. Letwonderful, beautiful, great country. Letwonderful, beautiful, great country. Let me go Jim Rogers style, go check in onme go Jim Rogers style, go check in onme go Jim Rogers style, go check in on some businesses. How how'd you comesome businesses. How how'd you comesome businesses. How how'd you come around toaround toaround to the Turkey interest and how much otherthe Turkey interest and how much otherthe Turkey interest and how much other foreign investing had you been doing atforeign investing had you been doing atforeign investing had you been doing at this point? Was it a large part ofthis point? Was it a large part ofthis point? Was it a large part of investing strategy orinvesting strategy orinvesting strategy or walk us through kind of how it happened.walk us through kind of how it happened.walk us through kind of how it happened.
OtherWell, I mean, I think before Turkey IWell, I mean, I think before Turkey IWell, I mean, I think before Turkey I had been investing in in India. I hadhad been investing in in India. I hadhad been investing in in India. I had been making trips to Korea.been making trips to Korea.been making trips to Korea. I had looked at things in China.I had looked at things in China.I had looked at things in China. Looked at things in Japan and so on.Looked at things in Japan and so on.Looked at things in Japan and so on. But, what caught my eye in Turkey inBut, what caught my eye in Turkey inBut, what caught my eye in Turkey in 201820182018 was their ratio of GDP to market cap.was their ratio of GDP to market cap.was their ratio of GDP to market cap. GDP to market cap is not a, you knowGDP to market cap is not a, you knowGDP to market cap is not a, you know you know, it's not something you canyou know, it's not something you canyou know, it's not something you can always hang your hat on.always hang your hat on.always hang your hat on. But, there is a correlation, you know,But, there is a correlation, you know,But, there is a correlation, you know, basically a certain amount of a
Questionerbasically a certain amount of a country's wealth is in the publicly traded companies. I mean, if you look at the US GDP and US market caps, US is more than 100% of GDP. Is a publicly traded market caps in the US. In In Turkey, it was a small fraction. A relatively very small fraction. And the second thing I noticed is that everyone had exited. Everyone and their brother had I mean, these uh foreign funds, etc. had left the country. I happen to have a very good friend who's a very die-hard Graham investor. You know, he comes to Omaha and he's very well versed in Buffett and Graham and Munger, but though he's too overdosed in Graham, I'm trying to move him over to Munger. I'm making a little bit of progress, but not enough. So, I told him in 2018 that listen, I'd like to come to Istanbul. I know the food's great. We're going to have a good time, but I just
Questionergoing to have a good time, but I just want to visit companies that you have in your portfolio. Don't take me to companies that you don't have an investment in. And I want you to I want to visit the businesses that have the largest positions in your fund. And would you be okay with doing that?
OtherHe said, "Oh, yeah, it'll be a blast."
QuestionerOkay, so I still remember the first day we were going to visit the first business. He tells me, "Monish, the PE is 0.1."
OtherNot a PE of one, a 0.1 means that the company's going to earn its entire market cap in 1 month.
QuestionerI said, "Does it have hair on it?"
OtherHe said, "Yeah, it has a little bit of hair on it."
QuestionerI said, "What kind of hair does it have on it?"
OtherSo, it turns out it was one of the largest banks in Turkey. And they had been violating the UN sanctions against Iran. And they were facilitating all these transactions with
Questionerfacilitating all these transactions with Iran. They were not supposed to do that. And the US got wind of that. And they were really pissed off. And the CFO of the bank, who really didn't have a whole lot to do with all of this, it was the chairman driving all this, had come to the US to vacation with his kids Disneyland uh Disney World, actually. And the feds picked him up in New York while the rest of his family watched and they put him straight in Rikers prison. And then Erdogan is calling Trump and telling him, "You got to let this guy go." And Trump is saying, "It's the state of New York that's going after this. It's not me. I can't do anything. They don't listen to me." And then in the meantime, the company's creating the market and the US is thinking of just taking them off the international you know, Swift system and everything else.
QuestionerSo, I went to that meeting. It's a very well-run bank. And I told my friend, "This is too much hair for me. I can't go there. Can we just take it down a notch? We we can't be doing 0.1 PE. Like at least take me to PE of one." But what I what I found in in Turkey is that there was very high inflation. That was going to persist and continue, there were a set of businesses which were not affected at all. In fact, some of them had tailwinds because of inflation. And the baby got thrown out of the bathwater. Like no one was interested. But then I just looked at those businesses and I had a lot of cover because my friend knew the families, knew where the skeletons were. I mean, he'd really studied these businesses a lot. And so I had like a great unpaid analyst on the ground. We didn't do a whole lot. I mean, if I look
Questionerdidn't do a whole lot. I mean, if I look today, I've been I've been so many tripstoday, I've been I've been so many tripstoday, I've been I've been so many trips to Turkey. We have three investments.to Turkey. We have three investments.to Turkey. We have three investments. That's it. We have three investments inThat's it. We have three investments inThat's it. We have three investments in Turkey after probably having visitedTurkey after probably having visitedTurkey after probably having visited about 80 or 90 businesses there over theabout 80 or 90 businesses there over theabout 80 or 90 businesses there over the years. Um the three companies don'tyears. Um the three companies don'tyears. Um the three companies don't really have any correlationreally have any correlationreally have any correlation with Turkish inflation or anything else.with Turkish inflation or anything else.with Turkish inflation or anything else. Like Like one of them gets a tailwindLike Like one of them gets a tailwindLike Like one of them gets a tailwind from it because their revenues are infrom it because their revenues are infrom it because their revenues are in euros and all the costs are in lira. So,euros and all the costs are in lira. So,euros and all the costs are in lira. So, they actually get tailwinds fromthey actually get tailwinds fromthey actually get tailwinds from inflation. And they were very stronginflation. And they were very stronginflation. And they were very strong businesses. So, for example, there's abusinesses. So, for example, there's abusinesses. So, for example, there's a Coke bottler in Turkey. And they have aCoke bottler in Turkey. And they have aCoke bottler in Turkey. And they have a very good relationship with thevery good relationship with thevery good relationship with the Coca-Cola company. Coca-Cola companyCoca-Cola company. Coca-Cola companyCoca-Cola company. Coca-Cola company owns 20% of the business, sits on theowns 20% of the business, sits on theowns 20% of the business, sits on the board.board.board. And you can look at Coke bottlers aroundAnd you can look at Coke bottlers aroundAnd you can look at Coke bottlers around the world. The economics are verythe world. The economics are verythe world. The economics are very similar. They should trade at similarsimilar. They should trade at similarsimilar. They should trade at similar multiples. You know, everything is
Todd Combsmultiples. You know, everything is if the growth rates are different, you can put different multiples on them. This thing was an outlier. And you know, the Coke bottler only about a third of their volume, maybe 35% or 40% was coming from Turkey. The rest was coming from things that have nothing to do with Turkey. They're the largest Coke bottler in Pakistan. I mean, they're the only Coke bottler in Pakistan, for example. And so, it's huge volumes. So, basically what I what I found is that there were a sliver of businesses there that no one was interested in. We invested in a warehouse company. I still couldn't believe it, but liquidation value was like 6 or 700 million and the market cap was 20 million. We just couldn't I just couldn't understand that. It was just crazy. We hear the same three or four tropes every time we talk about foreign markets, but
Questionertime we talk about foreign markets, but the two big ones is, you know, people get so caught up in the macro and and so many investors get sidelined by it because they see what's going on with the currency or they see what's going on with the government or they see what's going on all these listed things that in our opinion is is can be controlled. How do you think about, broadly speaking, the currency side of it? Is it something you hedge at all? Or you mentioned some have even more complicated and even beneficial, you know, parts of the hedging type of thoughts. But what what How much of the macro picture plays in for you guys on either dissuading you or obviously didn't cuz you do it. How do you think about the macro in places like this?
OtherWe've never hedged currency anywhere. And uh in some places, like in Turkey or India, etc., it would be quite
QuestionerTurkey or India, etc., it would be quite expensive and actually you wouldn't you wouldn't be able to do it for very long. So, it would be somewhat impractical. But we we had a view that the currency would continue to devalue quite significantly. Inflation would be high. It wouldn't go down in any, you know, finite period of time. I basically looked at businesses where those conditions were irrelevant. If I am, you know, bottling Coke, for example, I will get paid a certain amount for someone's labor to give them a Coke. That's basically the deal. The currency is not that relevant. I mean, they're going to be able to adjust it based on whatever's going on. And in other cases, there were businesses where the revenue just wasn't I mean, there's a We don't have an investment here, but there's a juice exporter in Turkey where all their
Questionerexporter in Turkey where all their revenues are coming from Europe inrevenues are coming from Europe inrevenues are coming from Europe in euros. And their costs are all in lira.euros. And their costs are all in lira.euros. And their costs are all in lira. It's not relevant to them what isIt's not relevant to them what isIt's not relevant to them what is happening in the country from ahappening in the country from ahappening in the country from a inflation point of view. They actuallyinflation point of view. They actuallyinflation point of view. They actually get tailwinds because their labor costsget tailwinds because their labor costsget tailwinds because their labor costs actually go down because the standard ofactually go down because the standard ofactually go down because the standard of living goes down with all thisliving goes down with all thisliving goes down with all this inflation. So, I think the macro isinflation. So, I think the macro isinflation. So, I think the macro is important when you have these crazyimportant when you have these crazyimportant when you have these crazy things going on. I just try to kind ofthings going on. I just try to kind ofthings going on. I just try to kind of side-step and look at a sliver of thingsside-step and look at a sliver of thingsside-step and look at a sliver of things becausebecausebecause the baby got thrown out of thethe baby got thrown out of thethe baby got thrown out of the bathwater. Most of those companiesbathwater. Most of those companiesbathwater. Most of those companies deservedeservedeserve to be clobbered because inflation willto be clobbered because inflation willto be clobbered because inflation will clobber everything about them. Theclobber everything about them. Theclobber everything about them. The market is mostly correct about that, butmarket is mostly correct about that, butmarket is mostly correct about that, but it's not entirely correct. And what Iit's not entirely correct. And what Iit's not entirely correct. And what I found isfound isfound is even very smart, rational people I wouldeven very smart, rational people I wouldeven very smart, rational people I would talk totalk totalk to didn't have an interest. And that's whendidn't have an interest. And that's whendidn't have an interest. And that's when I could see that, okay, this is a veryI could see that, okay, this is a veryI could see that, okay, this is a very irrational reaction here because I know
Questionerirrational reaction here because I know these guys are smart, but they're still not willing to even go look at it. Not not invest, but just look at it, you know. Well, Turkish stocks certainly had a monster 2022, which I would also like to point out uh correlates with the mustache year, Monish. Um so, where else are as you look beyond our borders? Are you getting uh curious about what the Omaha crew is uh in Japan? Any other countries? How's India look? Any other um you know, places that are interesting right now?
QuestionerWell, usually for me, yeah, India India is also another good place because it has a lot of secular tailwinds. You know, the whole China being in the penalty box and all of that is a is a big tailwind for for India. And also, it's a there's a big demographic dividend. It's the only country with large country with a
Othercountry with large country with a growing population and so on. But Igrowing population and so on. But Igrowing population and so on. But I would say in in any other country otherwould say in in any other country otherwould say in in any other country other than the US, Canada, and India, andthan the US, Canada, and India, andthan the US, Canada, and India, and maybe some Western European countries, Imaybe some Western European countries, Imaybe some Western European countries, I need ground cover.need ground cover.need ground cover. So, I need someone on the ground whoSo, I need someone on the ground whoSo, I need someone on the ground who really understands Buffett and Mungerreally understands Buffett and Mungerreally understands Buffett and Munger and understands the ground realities.and understands the ground realities.and understands the ground realities. And so, usually I I'mAnd so, usually I I'mAnd so, usually I I'm I can't like, you know, someone send meI can't like, you know, someone send meI can't like, you know, someone send me somesomesome a stock in Mexico or something, youa stock in Mexico or something, youa stock in Mexico or something, you know, unless Iknow, unless Iknow, unless I have uh trusted people, etc. I I reallyhave uh trusted people, etc. I I reallyhave uh trusted people, etc. I I really can't do a whole lot because I thinkcan't do a whole lot because I thinkcan't do a whole lot because I think that once you step outside the USthat once you step outside the USthat once you step outside the US borders, governance becomes a really bigborders, governance becomes a really bigborders, governance becomes a really big issue. The people become a really bigissue. The people become a really bigissue. The people become a really big issue. And what I found what I found inissue. And what I found what I found inissue. And what I found what I found in Turkey is in these businesses weTurkey is in these businesses weTurkey is in these businesses we invested in, the people running theseinvested in, the people running theseinvested in, the people running these businesses are the highest qualitybusinesses are the highest qualitybusinesses are the highest quality people I've met. Just incredible.people I've met. Just incredible.people I've met. Just incredible. Incredible talent, incredible ethics. IIncredible talent, incredible ethics. IIncredible talent, incredible ethics. I mean, one of the one of the families in
Greg Abelmean, one of the one of the families in Turkey that the one that has the Coke bottling, they have all the McDonald's franchises in Turkey. They have a big joint venture with Anheuser-Busch for beer. And I could see why that's the case because they have the most pristine reputation in Turkey. And all these companies, before they would partner with anyone, they do a very extensive due diligence. And they had very deep comfort. So, basically, it It really important to make sure that the families and the business and the promoters we were dealing with were absolutely the top-notch, highest quality. I think we we ended up with much higher quality teams and promoters than I would have in the US. And those are also an anomaly, you know, they're they're few and far between. So, I think that when I'm looking at foreign markets, these factors uh more than macro,
Questionerthese factors uh more than macro, uh the people become a lot more important. We haven't even spent much time on US markets. What's the opportunity set look like you now in the summer of 2023? You find a lot of opportunity? Are you uh finding a lot of landmines? What do things look like to you?
Ted WeschlerI was having a very hard time finding stuff in the US. And part of the reason is my own fault is that I'm a cheapskate. And uh you know, the amazing thing about someone like Warren Buffett is he's still adding to Apple. You know, we had a discussion about whether they should trim. At the current market cap, he's still adding. Okay, and he's adding at five times the price he first bought it. So, it's amazing that he's not anchored. It's a great skill to have to be able to do that. I did find a couple of things in the US. I was actually surprised. I found them
QuestionerI was actually surprised. I found them recently. But we will not talk about it. It'll come out. It'll come out in the next 13F. We'll watch your 13Fs. You know, it's funny is that we both have been long-time followers and curious about the concept of cloning, you know, to me and Charlie talks about it. I I think certainly more than just about anyone. I don't know if Warren talks about it as much, but Charlie talks a lot about that. That concept of 13Fs and I love looking at yours cuz usually you want us There's not a lot of names on there. I mean, sometimes there's like four. And we got what? Micron, Brookfield. Yeah, we do we just have I think the last last one maybe had two or three names and that was it. I mean, the thing is that we just haven't been able to find stuff. And actually part of it is my problem. Like I think that I
Todd CombsLike I think that I didn't fully grasp how strong the tech tailwinds were. And how strong, for example, business like Amazon is. I was surprised that in Omaha this year at a dinner I was seated next to Bill Gates. And I had two and a half hours with Bill Gates. I was like, you know, okay, this will be fun. And I played a game with him, you know, I said, "Look, uh Bill, I'll I'll mention a name of a company and you tell me whether you'd go long or short or neutral." You know, and he was willing to play the game, you know. And and he had I was just surprised at how much insight he had into some of these these tech names and and the way he sliced a business like like Google versus uh versus Amazon versus Apple. Like he was complaining to me. He said, "You know, I invested in Berkshire as a hedge against everything else I'm doing."
Questionerdoing." And then I see that they had this huge Apple position. You know, and so one of the you know, when I asked him about Apple, he was in a book. He said, "Look, they they don't do R&D. He said, 'We do R&D. Google does R&D, not as well. They've kind of loosey-goosey R&D. But Apple is just, you know, it's top-down. It's it's it was designed by Steve to be one guy uh driving everything. And it's a very different company than something like Amazon. If I look at, for example, Facebook and Amazon, compare them, they will put a lot of stuff through a lot of stuff against the wall in Amazon. And a lot of small bets. And then they watch and then they nurture the ones that are getting traction. But when you have things like Fire that Bezos loves, he'll bury it. Doesn't get traction, he'll bury it. And you look at some someone like
QuestionerAnd you look at some someone like Facebook, it's one big bet. Facebook, it's one big bet. Facebook, it's one big bet. You know, it's one big bet on the You know, it's one big bet on the You know, it's one big bet on the metaverse. metaverse. metaverse. And between the two I would just I just And between the two I would just I just And between the two I would just I just want to do the Amazon way. I don't want want to do the Amazon way. I don't want want to do the Amazon way. I don't want to do the Facebook way. That's just all to do the Facebook way. That's just all to do the Facebook way. That's just all or none. And Mark has gotten that or none. And Mark has gotten that or none. And Mark has gotten that message now. I mean, now he's become a message now. I mean, now he's become a message now. I mean, now he's become a hardcore, you know, cut the cost and you hardcore, you know, cut the cost and you hardcore, you know, cut the cost and you know, show me the money kind of guy, know, show me the money kind of guy, know, show me the money kind of guy, which is great. But it was fascinating which is great. But it was fascinating which is great. But it was fascinating to to hear it from from Bill in terms of these hear it from from Bill in terms of these hear it from from Bill in terms of these different companies. Even the even the different companies. Even the even the different companies. Even the even the semiconductor companies, I mean, he had semiconductor companies, I mean, he had semiconductor companies, I mean, he had a he gave me a 20-minute lecture on ASML a he gave me a 20-minute lecture on ASML a he gave me a 20-minute lecture on ASML and the technology of ASML. and the technology of ASML. and the technology of ASML. You know, I mean, he just knows it down You know, I mean, he just knows it down You know, I mean, he just knows it down to the nitty-gritty, which is really to the nitty-gritty, which is really to the nitty-gritty, which is really impressive. But I can tell you what he impressive. But I can tell you what he impressive. But I can tell you what he would do. He would go long Amazon. He would do. He would go long Amazon. He would do. He would go long Amazon. He would definitely go long Microsoft. would definitely go long Microsoft. would definitely go long Microsoft. And he would go long AMD. And he would go long AMD. And he would go long AMD. Those were his picks. Well, and he's Those were his picks. Well, and he's
QuestionerThose were his picks. Well, and he's also famous cuz Elon keeps whining about it. He's very famously short Tesla or has been cuz Elon's always like, "When are you going to close out this Tesla short position?" It's like, you know, on Twitter all the time. Yeah, I think that's the whole shorting thing is a little bit dumb. When And I think shorting someone like Elon is very dumb. On the hundreds, thousands maybe, of investments you've done in your career, what's been the most memorable? Doesn't have to be the best, doesn't have to be the worst, but just the one that pops in your head as the most memorable investment uh for you.
QuestionerThe thing is that what what I have always found interesting is the anomalies, you know. So, so for example, I remember in about I think it was like 2004 or so in 2004, there's this steel company uh based in Canada called IPSCO.
Warrencompany uh based in Canada called IPSCO. IPSCO had no debt. It had $15 a share inIPSCO had no debt. It had $15 a share inIPSCO had no debt. It had $15 a share in cash. And it had uh given guidance thatcash. And it had uh given guidance thatcash. And it had uh given guidance that the next 2 years' earningsthe next 2 years' earningsthe next 2 years' earnings were going to be $15 a share each forwere going to be $15 a share each forwere going to be $15 a share each for the next 2 years. So, there was $30 ofthe next 2 years. So, there was $30 ofthe next 2 years. So, there was $30 of earnings coming in.earnings coming in.earnings coming in. The stock was at 42.The stock was at 42.The stock was at 42. So, I'm saying, "Okay." And the reasonSo, I'm saying, "Okay." And the reasonSo, I'm saying, "Okay." And the reason they gave the guidance was they theythey gave the guidance was they theythey gave the guidance was they they used to make these tubular steel pipesused to make these tubular steel pipesused to make these tubular steel pipes where they had contracts with thesewhere they had contracts with thesewhere they had contracts with these pipelines where they wanted to deliverpipelines where they wanted to deliverpipelines where they wanted to deliver uh you know, the pipelines thatuh you know, the pipelines thatuh you know, the pipelines that basically given them purchase orders.basically given them purchase orders.basically given them purchase orders. And so, they were going to deliver theseAnd so, they were going to deliver theseAnd so, they were going to deliver these pipes and their cash flows werepipes and their cash flows werepipes and their cash flows were guaranteed. It's not like they wereguaranteed. It's not like they wereguaranteed. It's not like they were giving guidance based ongiving guidance based ongiving guidance based on future sales to be done. These werefuture sales to be done. These werefuture sales to be done. These were sales they've already done.sales they've already done.sales they've already done. So, I said, "Okay, I don'tSo, I said, "Okay, I don'tSo, I said, "Okay, I don't know what will happen after 2 years.know what will happen after 2 years.know what will happen after 2 years. But I know that I after 2 years there'llBut I know that I after 2 years there'llBut I know that I after 2 years there'll be $45 of cash on the balance sheet, no
Questionerbe $45 of cash on the balance sheet, no debt. And the stock price currently is 42. I said, "I just want to see what the stock price is 2 years from now. I want to see what Mr. Market does with this." And I just bought it based on that notion, right? And a year later the company announces that we have one more year of visibility. And we'll have another $15 a share earnings for one more year. And now the stock is at about 70 or 80. It's gone up a bit, okay? And I'm thinking about, well, you know, we don't it's a steel company, it could go to zero, whatever. It's a very cyclical business. And and then it starts drifting close to 90 and I'm thinking of, you know, taking it off. Like I said, the double in 15 months is really good, you know, let's move on. And then I wake up one morning and the stock's at 1 157. And some Swedish company offered to buy
QuestionerAnd some Swedish company offered to buy them at 160. And about 5 minutes after that I unloaded the stock. I said, "We don't need to wait for the last $3. We're done." Recently, the two stocks I found in the US, which I got really excited about, are like that. I never thought I'd find that again where it's this kind of an anomaly where the guaranteed cash flows are exceeding the market cap and all of that. And I remember uh couple of years before that in 2001, so I had read a long time ago that the lowest rate of business failure of any kind of business that you can have is funeral homes. So, if you really want to have a guaranteed long-term successful business, just buy a existing funeral home that's doing okay. And nobody goes into the funeral home business. Nobody takes a low bid when their favorite uncle dies. You just want it done right, okay? So,
QuestionerYou just want it done right, okay? So, they have no cost pressures, they have no cost pressures, they have no cost pressures, they have no margin pressures. There's nothing. no margin pressures. There's nothing. no margin pressures. There's nothing. And I thought, "Okay, wow, I read that." And I thought, "Okay, wow, I read that." And I thought, "Okay, wow, I read that." I said, "Okay, that's interesting that I said, "Okay, that's interesting that I said, "Okay, that's interesting that the funeral business has got this great the funeral business has got this great the funeral business has got this great characteristics." characteristics." characteristics." And then in 2001 I'm reading Value Line. And then in 2001 I'm reading Value Line. And then in 2001 I'm reading Value Line. Every every week I read Value Line. And Every every week I read Value Line. And Every every week I read Value Line. And I read the I look at one of the areas I I read the I look at one of the areas I I read the I look at one of the areas I look at is look at is look at is the stocks with the lowest PEs, right? the stocks with the lowest PEs, right? the stocks with the lowest PEs, right? You know, we can't help ourselves. We You know, we can't help ourselves. We You know, we can't help ourselves. We always go to the lowest PE stock. always go to the lowest PE stock. always go to the lowest PE stock. And I see two And I see two And I see two funeral services companies funeral services companies funeral services companies with a PE of two. with a PE of two. with a PE of two. Two of them sitting there, lowest in the Two of them sitting there, lowest in the Two of them sitting there, lowest in the Value Line list. Value Line list. Value Line list. So, I said, "Okay, maybe there's some So, I said, "Okay, maybe there's some So, I said, "Okay, maybe there's some craziness in the numbers or something." craziness in the numbers or something." craziness in the numbers or something." I went back and looked at those I went back and looked at those I went back and looked at those companies. They're actually at two times companies. They're actually at two times companies. They're actually at two times earnings. earnings. earnings. Okay? So, I said, "Wait a minute, these Okay? So, I said, "Wait a minute, these Okay? So, I said, "Wait a minute, these these businesses never fail. And it's at these businesses never fail. And it's at these businesses never fail. And it's at two times earnings and I know that it's
Othertwo times earnings and I know that it's a great business.
OtherAnd it turned out both these companies had done big roll-ups in business. They had a lot of debt. There was a concern about the debt. But I said the cash flows are so resilient, you know, we don't know who's going to die next week in Peoria, Illinois, but we know how many are going to die. Okay, there's absolute certainty on that. So, I I bought I bought Stewart Enterprises, a funeral services company at two times earnings. And you know, it was eventually at 10 times earnings and got to where it needed to get to.
OtherSo, I think the the the best ones are the anomalies, you know, like I go to Turkey, I go to this meeting and the whole market cap is 20 million and the liquidation value is 700 million. And you know, you scratch your head. It just hits you in your head with a with a two by four.
Questionerwith a two by four.with a two by four. And so, those are the ones those are theAnd so, those are the ones those are theAnd so, those are the ones those are the ones that really interest me, you know.ones that really interest me, you know.ones that really interest me, you know. Your comments umYour comments umYour comments um I think are more important and profoundI think are more important and profoundI think are more important and profound than than you know, it sounds verythan than you know, it sounds verythan than you know, it sounds very simplistic, but but listeners like thesimplistic, but but listeners like thesimplistic, but but listeners like the the concept um like you don't have tothe concept um like you don't have tothe concept um like you don't have to have an opinion on every stock thathave an opinion on every stock thathave an opinion on every stock that comes your way. And like andcomes your way. And like andcomes your way. And like and particularly the ones like Tesla,particularly the ones like Tesla,particularly the ones like Tesla, everyone or Bitcoin, it's not a stock,everyone or Bitcoin, it's not a stock,everyone or Bitcoin, it's not a stock, but but everyone feels like they have tobut but everyone feels like they have tobut but everyone feels like they have to have an opinion on every single thinghave an opinion on every single thinghave an opinion on every single thing and they say like it's very refreshingand they say like it's very refreshingand they say like it's very refreshing to simply say, "You know what?to simply say, "You know what?to simply say, "You know what? There's tens of thousands of stocks outThere's tens of thousands of stocks outThere's tens of thousands of stocks out there. I don't have to have it like Jimthere. I don't have to have it like Jimthere. I don't have to have it like Jim Cramer have an opinion on every singleCramer have an opinion on every singleCramer have an opinion on every single one. I can just simply sit there and letone. I can just simply sit there and letone. I can just simply sit there and let them pass by and then, you know, on onthem pass by and then, you know, on onthem pass by and then, you know, on on the occasionthe occasionthe occasion Well, like Buffett says, we are in aWell, like Buffett says, we are in aWell, like Buffett says, we are in a business with no called strikes. And youbusiness with no called strikes. And you
Warrenbusiness with no called strikes. And you know, you're not going to be struck out by letting three of three balls go. You can let 3,000 balls go. So, we we don't need to know much about anything. And you know, Charlie brings up his friend John Arrillaga, you know, he just invested all his life in real estate 1 mile around the Stanford campus. That's all he did. Died a billionaire. And then his daughter marries Marc Andreessen. So, it's billionaire to the power of billionaire now. So, anyway, what I'm saying is Arrillaga has such a tiny circle of confidence, you know. He didn't even do Bay Area real estate, okay? He didn't do California real estate. He only did real estate around Stanford. And if you walked with him around the Stanford campus, he could point to any building outside the campus and he'd tell you everything about it. You know, what it
Othereverything about it. You know, what it when it was built, what the rents are, what you could buy it for, everything, you know? And so, I think in investing and as well as in entrepreneurship inch wide and a mile deep is the way to go. You don't want to be an inch deep and a mile wide. Yeah, you can pick your spots. You don't need to know everything about everything. You need to know a lot about something a little bit. And then and then you works out well.
OtherWell, Monish, we kept you long enough. Um before we let you go, what's the best place for uh people to kind of check in with you, listen to you, what you're up to? Is Chai with Prabrai the best spot?
OtherChai with Prabrai is good. My Twitter handle is good. If you're a bridge player, direct message me on Twitter, we can play together. LinkedIn is fine, too. Any of those is just fine.
OtherAwesome. It's been a blessing to catch up with you, buddy. Uh hopefully to see you in the real world. Thanks for joining us today.
OtherThanks, Mel. It was a pleasure.