Other[Music][Music][Music][Music][Music] welcome to Morning Star I'm Lissa
OtherFernand and I'm super excited to be
Othertalking to the monish babai world-renowned author and investor and
Otherfounder and managing partner of barabra investment funds monish thanks a million
Otherfor your time thank you it's a pleasure
Otherto be with you I have a lot of
Otheradmiration for Morning Star and
Othereverything you've done for individual
Otherinvestors so it's a pleasure to be here thank you lovely okay my my first
Otherquestion to you is when you look at
Otherinvestment you bring this very
Otheranalytical mindset to the table I mean
Otheryou decide on particular criteria and on
Otherthe first few ask whether a company even
Otherpasses a test so when you think in such
Otherstructured terms does it spill into your
Otherpersonal life do you introspect about
Otherrelationships how you relate to people
Otherdo you overanalyze situations or
Otherconversations well I think people close
Otherconversations well I think people close to me have suggested and said that I have a very low emotional response to most events some of them wish the emotions were higher but it's not something I can control you know it is the way it is all of us are hardcoded in terms of who we are between our genetics in the first five or six years of our life experiences in the first five six years so I became aware of this when others kind of put a mirror in front of me and said so that is definitely an advantage in business and investing many times it's also an advantage in life but it also has its disadvantages you know you want said I I was listening to a podcast where you said that earlier this year that the world functions on trust and not contracts so people do business with you because they trust you and the best contracts are the ones you never
Questionerbest contracts are the ones you never look at once you sign so clearly you bring a lot of candor and integrity your standard is very high when you come into a relationship what about arrogance does arrogance in people put you off
Otheryeah I mean I think that one of the probably natural filters I use and probably a lot of other humans use is you know ego is a turnoff you know arrogance is in kind of a subset of ego and yeah so those types of traits generally speaking are a turnoff you know one of the things I learned a lot from is when I had the lunch with Buffett I said to him I said Warren you are an exceptional judge of humans were you always a great judge of humans and he said to me that you're actually mistaken Mish I'm actually not that great at judging humans he said if you put me in a cocktail party with a 100 people and you gave me about five
Questioner100 people and you gave me about five minutes to meet each person individually and he said that I would probably be able to tell you that there were four people out of those hundred that were exceptional wonderful people and there were probably four people who were probably turn-offs you know probably the arrogance ego and so on coming in and the other 92 I probably wouldn't be able to form an opinion about then he went one step further he said that what you ought to do is bring those four people who you were impressed with into your inner circle and the other 96 just take them out so basically in effect he was being a very harsh GR grader he was grading the people that he couldn't tell the same way that he was grading the people who turned him off and that is a a very powerful mental model to use in life it is a very unfair model to use because to a person
Otherunfair model to use because to a person who is in that 92 who may be a really good person go on to exclude it's not fair to that person but what happens is that by being a harsh grader so if you take the perspective Ive that there are an infinite number of humans on planet Earth and if there are infinite of humans on planet Earth it means there's also infinite number or near infinite number of good people on planet Earth we don't pay a penalty for excluding a good person from our Circle we play a big penalty for including a not so good person and so basically by being a unfair harsh grader you get a huge advantage in life and Buffett also says that you know if you hang out with people better than you you become better and if you hang out with people worse than you you become worse so this heuristic and this mental model Al when I meet people for the first time
OtherAl when I meet people for the first time the filter is pretty rigorous in the sense that if I uncover anything even minor that may be a concern for me I'll just you know exclude the person right and the people who get included have to be just you know in that five minutes they just impress you so much and whatever when I moved to Austin about about close to two years back I get a lot of requests from people who want to meet for lunch or coffee or whatever and usually a lot of them get discarded just from the way you know what I know from the the request but some of them I said okay you know let's meet some of these folks and see what's going on I think in the last almost two years I must have met maybe 30 or so individuals oneon-one only one person became a very good friend and I like to spend time with him and the other 29 mostly went by the wayside it
Questionerother 29 mostly went by the wayside it might be one or two others who are might be okay to hang out with and it's not that they are bad people or anything it's just that I was using Buffett's filter where even if I couldn't tell I moved with the decision to move on it's a difficult mental model for most people because they people want to be fair but I think the fairness will get in the way of being the best version of yourself so what is the trait where you seeing someone whether it's someone you meet just like this or a promoter of a company and you say okay I got to keep my distance well I mean I would say ego becomes one part of it you can tell usually you can tell someone is low ego or high ego how do they treat people three four levels below them at the bottom of the totem pole what are their friends like you know what are their
Otherfriends like you know what are their likes and dislikes and how they kind oflikes and dislikes and how they kind oflikes and dislikes and how they kind of make decisions or different things thatmake decisions or different things thatmake decisions or different things that they choose to spend time on so there'sthey choose to spend time on so there'sthey choose to spend time on so there's a lot of tells you know and some ofa lot of tells you know and some ofa lot of tells you know and some of those things might be fine for thethose things might be fine for thethose things might be fine for the person they may be good they just mayperson they may be good they just mayperson they may be good they just may not be a fit for someone like me andnot be a fit for someone like me andnot be a fit for someone like me and like I said like like Buffett said manylike I said like like Buffett said manylike I said like like Buffett said many times we can't tell because people puttimes we can't tell because people puttimes we can't tell because people put up fronts right so it's not alwaysup fronts right so it's not alwaysup fronts right so it's not always possible in a short meeting to get pastpossible in a short meeting to get pastpossible in a short meeting to get past those fronts but to the extent that youthose fronts but to the extent that youthose fronts but to the extent that you can it can be really helpful I've alsocan it can be really helpful I've alsocan it can be really helpful I've also felt that a lot of times our personalfelt that a lot of times our personalfelt that a lot of times our personal experiences have a lot of impact on theexperiences have a lot of impact on theexperiences have a lot of impact on the way we deal with money so it could beway we deal with money so it could beway we deal with money so it could be you get married then you have childrenyou get married then you have childrenyou get married then you have children then you have turbulent relationshipsthen you have turbulent relationshipsthen you have turbulent relationships then you make Financial immensethen you make Financial immensethen you make Financial immense Financial money then you may incurFinancial money then you may incurFinancial money then you may incur Financial losses like you said yourFinancial losses like you said yourFinancial losses like you said your parents lost money quite often when they
Questionerparents lost money quite often when they when you were young how does all this when you were young how does all this when you were young how does all this impact your idea of loss and risk how impact your idea of loss and risk how impact your idea of loss and risk how has it evolved when I finished College I has it evolved when I finished College I has it evolved when I finished College I got my degree in got my degree in got my degree in engineering and I got a very good job as engineering and I got a very good job as engineering and I got a very good job as a software engineer and my plan at that a software engineer and my plan at that a software engineer and my plan at that time was when I was 22 and started time was when I was 22 and started time was when I was 22 and started working was to stay at that company working was to stay at that company working was to stay at that company forever hopefully get promoted along the forever hopefully get promoted along the forever hopefully get promoted along the ways put 15% into my 40 1K retirement ways put 15% into my 40 1K retirement ways put 15% into my 40 1K retirement plan and you know I ran the numbers and plan and you know I ran the numbers and plan and you know I ran the numbers and I said that in 30 years or something I I said that in 30 years or something I I said that in 30 years or something I would be set financially with the would be set financially with the would be set financially with the savings and all of that and so that's savings and all of that and so that's savings and all of that and so that's the kind of the path I wanted because I the kind of the path I wanted because I the kind of the path I wanted because I was trying to run away from the was trying to run away from the was trying to run away from the turbulence that I had seen with my turbulence that I had seen with my turbulence that I had seen with my parents my dad was visiting me I was parents my dad was visiting me I was parents my dad was visiting me I was living in Chicago at the time my dad was living in Chicago at the time my dad was living in Chicago at the time my dad was visiting me I was about little under 25 visiting me I was about little under 25 visiting me I was about little under 25 years old at the time and he said to me years old at the time and he said to me years old at the time and he said to me it's time for you to
Questionerit's time for you to quit and start your own business right and and I said well you know I have no plans ever to do that and if you recall you know some of the experiences I had in childhood with all the gyration I saw with you and all the different ups and down the businesses and my father just brushed that aside he said oh that's all that's what makes life fun you know it's part of the great experience of living and he said that basically your situation here is that whatever you do in this company you will not see most of the reward of that because you're just one C in a very big wheel and you won't be able to exercise all your creativity and everything else because you'll be seen as a person who has a particular talent in a particular area and that's about it and I was myself at that time feeling I had joined this new group in this business this
Questionerthis new group in this business this company I work for they had just started company I work for they had just started company I work for they had just started International sales and marketing so the they had a dominant us footprint they they had a dominant us footprint they they had a dominant us footprint they were going overseas and when I joined were going overseas and when I joined were going overseas and when I joined that group it was seven people and their that group it was seven people and their that group it was seven people and their mandate was to get half the revenue of mandate was to get half the revenue of mandate was to get half the revenue of the company from overseas the US side at the company from overseas the US side at the company from overseas the US side at about 1500 people and in about three about 1500 people and in about three about 1500 people and in about three years that seven people had gone to years that seven people had gone to years that seven people had gone to about 800 people they had done an we had about 800 people they had done an we had about 800 people they had done an we had done an acquisition and grown a lot and done an acquisition and grown a lot and done an acquisition and grown a lot and so on and what I had noticed is that my so on and what I had noticed is that my so on and what I had noticed is that my job description which was doing job description which was doing job description which was doing everything when we were seven kept everything when we were seven kept everything when we were seven kept getting narrower and narrower as we were getting narrower and narrower as we were getting narrower and narrower as we were at about at about at about 800 and I actually liked it better when 800 and I actually liked it better when 800 and I actually liked it better when it was 7 versus 800 and at the same time it was 7 versus 800 and at the same time it was 7 versus 800 and at the same time my father was talking to me about you my father was talking to me about you my father was talking to me about you know so I knew that I was not happy with know so I knew that I was not happy with know so I knew that I was not happy with the situation even though it was a great the situation even though it was a great the situation even though it was a great company and they took great care of me
Questionercompany and they took great care of me and all that and so I worked on a startup on the side and then once that startup on the side and then once that startup on the side and then once that got traction I left I think the experiences I had in childhood I saw the flaw that my uh father had in his in his businesses where he was really good as an entrepreneur in identifying opportunities and scaling them but he was very aggressive and the businesses were under capitalized so usually the first storm would just bankrupt the company so I uh learned a lot from the experience and I tried to build in much more resilience into the businesses and what I was doing so I focused a lot on on on the downside while going for the upside so those experiences in childhood actually were very helpful to helping me navigate through that how did the GFC the global financial crisis impact your the way you deal with loss because I
Questionerthe way you deal with loss because I think your portfolio dipped quite a bit during that time if I'm not mistaken just before the global financial crisis
Othermy net worth in June of 2007 had peaked at 84 million which was awesome and then I think at the absolute bottom it had bottomed out at under 20 million and you know there are worse problems in life than a 20 million net worth it wasn't the end of the world but the area that it was having the greatest impact on me was that I had started the Dua foundation and I had basically we had agreed that we would give away 2% of our net worth every year to dsha as long as the net worth was over 50 million so it would give us at least a million dollars a year going into dakana and DNA was off to a very strong flying start in 2007 but when I got to 2000 late 2008 and early 2009 daksh was spending at that time around a million
Otherspending at that time around a million and a half a year it had a significant footprint and there were no outside donors I had been basically funding it and I got very concerned that level of outflow if my net worth never increase would put things in Peril we had a number of we had hundreds of kids who were preparing for the IIT exams and so on so I had a joint venture with the government of India so I went and spoke to them and I said look all these kids that we have in our program we're going to fund the program and see them through their their studies and IIT Admissions and all of that but we're not going to take another batch we not going to take a new batch in 2009 and the people in the ministry of human resource development they understood my situation they appreciated the cander and they said look you know the government works
Othersaid look you know the government works with President we've got aou and we've got a partnership with you what we would recommend is that you reduce the scale of the program but don't eliminate it because restarting will be hard so we were taking about 400 kids a year at that time and I took their advice and in 200 9 we took the smallest batch we took this one batch of 50 kids and which was still going to be some burden but basically it would be like 150 200,000 maybe quar million dollars or something and that was something I was comfortable with it didn't impact me much because you know I have a modest lifestyle and whatever I was doing there was no leverage in my life so it didn't really make much difference to me I could also see that the things that we owned bus businesses that I was had invested in looked extremely cheap I was selling things at P of four to buy things at P
Questionerthings at P of four to buy things at P of two things were even cheaper and so I could see that there was a decent chance that things would kind of bounce up from here and the important thing I had learned you know from my parents and all of that was that I had no leverage in Mone you know so I was poorer and I was two years back but I didn't have any leverage and so that was fine 2009 you know the markets bottom out in March 2009 in the year 2009 PAB funds was up the different funds were up between 110 and 130% so by the time we got to the end of 2009 my net worth was almost double where we had bottomed we were still below the 50 million but then you know we had several years of very strong performance after that because we were coming out of such lows and then lakna was able to in fact the batch we took into 2010 the next year was a normal
Questionerinto 2010 the next year was a normal batch of 400 so we were back to normal so it worked fine I think in the end I'm grateful for the advice from those guys in the ministry and it it worked out very well how do you view success because from every parameter you usually successful how do you view success how much of a role does money play in your idea of being a successful human being
Warrenone of the things I realized in the last few years is Charlie Munger just passed away earlier this week he was 99.9 years old he was just about a one month one month shy of his 100 birthday and I developed a very good friendship with Charlie over the last 14 years very unlikely thing to happen but it did happen and I had many Bridge games with him I had many meals with him I had many dinners at his place with him over the last 14 years and I got to observe him
Warrenlast 14 years and I got to observe him in a very imate setting if you will andin a very imate setting if you will andin a very imate setting if you will and one of the things I noticed that overone of the things I noticed that overone of the things I noticed that over time when I looked at the way Charlietime when I looked at the way Charlietime when I looked at the way Charlie was is that I saw that he didn't lookwas is that I saw that he didn't lookwas is that I saw that he didn't look back so I would always bring up toback so I would always bring up toback so I would always bring up to Charlie that Charlie you look at theCharlie that Charlie you look at theCharlie that Charlie you look at the body of your work that you have done inbody of your work that you have done inbody of your work that you have done in your lifetime and it is so immense andyour lifetime and it is so immense andyour lifetime and it is so immense and impressive I mean you know you're goingimpressive I mean you know you're goingimpressive I mean you know you're going to go down as one of the great historicto go down as one of the great historicto go down as one of the great historic figures of all time you know andfigures of all time you know andfigures of all time you know and especially in as a philosopher and anespecially in as a philosopher and anespecially in as a philosopher and an investor and so on and he would alwaysinvestor and so on and he would alwaysinvestor and so on and he would always brush it off and his Focus would alwaysbrush it off and his Focus would alwaysbrush it off and his Focus would always be on whatever problem he was looking atbe on whatever problem he was looking atbe on whatever problem he was looking at in front of him so Burkshire has beenin front of him so Burkshire has beenin front of him so Burkshire has been really successful he would moan and sayreally successful he would moan and sayreally successful he would moan and say we have too much cash we can't findwe have too much cash we can't findwe have too much cash we can't find Investments we're looking things are soInvestments we're looking things are soInvestments we're looking things are so expensive he would not spend time evenexpensive he would not spend time evenexpensive he would not spend time even wanting to talk about the past ofwanting to talk about the past ofwanting to talk about the past of Burkshire haway or the past of Charlie M
QuestionerBurkshire haway or the past of Charlie MBurkshire haway or the past of Charlie M or he was also chairman of a companyor he was also chairman of a companyor he was also chairman of a company called The Daily Journal Corporation andcalled The Daily Journal Corporation andcalled The Daily Journal Corporation and he was looking for a CEO successor forhe was looking for a CEO successor forhe was looking for a CEO successor for the Daily Journal and he would moan andthe Daily Journal and he would moan andthe Daily Journal and he would moan and groan to me that he needs to findgroan to me that he needs to findgroan to me that he needs to find someone he's not able to find someonesomeone he's not able to find someonesomeone he's not able to find someone Etc so what I found is that all of hisEtc so what I found is that all of hisEtc so what I found is that all of his energies were focused on taking the nextenergies were focused on taking the nextenergies were focused on taking the next step forward and they were not focusedstep forward and they were not focusedstep forward and they were not focused on looking back and saying wow that'son looking back and saying wow that'son looking back and saying wow that's I've covered a lot of distance behind meI've covered a lot of distance behind meI've covered a lot of distance behind me you know anyone else looking at Charlieyou know anyone else looking at Charlieyou know anyone else looking at Charlie would say forget what's in front of youwould say forget what's in front of youwould say forget what's in front of you the daily General CEO or whatever elsethe daily General CEO or whatever elsethe daily General CEO or whatever else of bur's moneyof bur's moneyof bur's money you dropped it today it's fine theyou dropped it today it's fine theyou dropped it today it's fine the history is so impressive but that's nothistory is so impressive but that's nothistory is so impressive but that's not how he thought and that's also not howhow he thought and that's also not howhow he thought and that's also not how Warren Buffett things so I try to learnWarren Buffett things so I try to learnWarren Buffett things so I try to learn from that so used to be like a lot offrom that so used to be like a lot offrom that so used to be like a lot of other what is normal for humans is weother what is normal for humans is weother what is normal for humans is we look back you know we did well at school
Otherlook back you know we did well at school or we did well in a business or we did or we did well in a business or we did or we did well in a business or we did well at a at my investment fund or well at a at my investment fund or well at a at my investment fund or whatever else or dsh and so on and say whatever else or dsh and so on and say whatever else or dsh and so on and say oh this is great you know but I I think oh this is great you know but I I think oh this is great you know but I I think that it's a it's a better mental model that it's a it's a better mental model that it's a it's a better mental model to focus the energy is going forward so to focus the energy is going forward so to focus the energy is going forward so I don't think in terms of what is I don't think in terms of what is I don't think in terms of what is success you know I think my dad was not success you know I think my dad was not success you know I think my dad was not a religious guy but he had a area where a religious guy but he had a area where a religious guy but he had a area where he used to go and say his prayers in the he used to go and say his prayers in the he used to go and say his prayers in the morning and he a quote in that prayer morning and he a quote in that prayer morning and he a quote in that prayer area it was in English it said success area it was in English it said success area it was in English it said success is not a summit or a peak anything you is not a summit or a peak anything you is not a summit or a peak anything you do can be done better so the way I look do can be done better so the way I look do can be done better so the way I look at it is that I've been very lucky a lot at it is that I've been very lucky a lot at it is that I've been very lucky a lot of lot of luck luck plays a big role in of lot of luck luck plays a big role in of lot of luck luck plays a big role in how where we end up you know right place how where we end up you know right place how where we end up you know right place right time right people Etc so there's a right time right people Etc so there's a right time right people Etc so there's a lot of luck involved in everything that lot of luck involved in everything that lot of luck involved in everything that happens in life especially the good happens in life especially the good happens in life especially the good things that happen in life and so my
Questionerthings that happen in life and so my focus is more on how can I you know what is the next problem or next Milestone and let's focus our energies on that does anything make you insecure or give you sleepless nights
QuestionerI don't have any problems with sleep I think one of my personality templates you know one is I don't have a high emotional response to a lot of things like for example in 2009 when we were at the bottom and I wasn't so concerned about what was happening with me I was more concerned with what was happening to my investors you know they the funds were down like 65% from the peak more than the index was down the index was down about 40% and my concern was oh you know some of these people will exit if they exit I can never make it back for them thankfully the exits were somewhat limited which was good one of the things I I did at that time which has served me
OtherI I did at that time which has served me very well is that I created a very well is that I created a very well is that I created a spreadsheet of my portfolio and I put spreadsheet of my portfolio and I put spreadsheet of my portfolio and I put put down the current prices of put down the current prices of put down the current prices of everything and I also put down what I everything and I also put down what I everything and I also put down what I thought those businesses were worth and thought those businesses were worth and thought those businesses were worth and I spent more time thinking about what I spent more time thinking about what I spent more time thinking about what their values were versus what their their values were versus what their their values were versus what their market prices were many years back I I market prices were many years back I I market prices were many years back I I think when I was like 10 or 11 years think when I was like 10 or 11 years think when I was like 10 or 11 years back in 10 or 11 years old in my back in 10 or 11 years old in my back in 10 or 11 years old in my childhood my father had gone bankrupt childhood my father had gone bankrupt childhood my father had gone bankrupt and he was down to nothing and there was and he was down to nothing and there was and he was down to nothing and there was this astrologer who used to show up at this astrologer who used to show up at this astrologer who used to show up at our home in Mumbai in bandra and he used our home in Mumbai in bandra and he used our home in Mumbai in bandra and he used to be in this orange robes with a lot of to be in this orange robes with a lot of to be in this orange robes with a lot of like marks on his forehead and all of like marks on his forehead and all of like marks on his forehead and all of that and he used to basically read my that and he used to basically read my that and he used to basically read my father's kind of horoscope and give him father's kind of horoscope and give him father's kind of horoscope and give him some thought on what he thought the some thought on what he thought the some thought on what he thought the future would be and my father was an future would be and my father was an future would be and my father was an engineer he was a very rational guy so I engineer he was a very rational guy so I engineer he was a very rational guy so I went up to him quietly I knew there was
Otherwent up to him quietly I knew there was not the best time for him I said you have to know that whatever this person is saying is total nonsense it has nothing to do with reality and whatever he's telling you is not real so my father said that and I said we don't have very much money and every week you pay him when we have very few resources so so my father said that when I pay this guy and I tell him to come back the next week he knows that he'll only be invited back the next week if he gives me a Rosy forecast for the future so he said I'm at the bottom of a very deep well and I need a rope to climb out of that well and this weird astrologer with the orange robes he is my rope because what I can do is I can suspend reality and I can just you know immerse myself into what he is saying will be reality in the future and that is giving me the
Questionerin the future and that is giving me the energy to look at what I can do next what business I can start next and you know get on a recovery path right and in 2009 when I was you know seeing this portfolio down and all this stuff that spreadsheet became the role I I spent more time looking at what the businesses should be worth than what the quoted value vales were and that gradually helped me keep a sensible Outlook but I never really got depressed it's just not the way I'm I'm built I'm I'm grateful for that it's not something I can control on a day-to-day basis everything was just fine you know I roof home my head we had good food to eat everything was fine so there was nothing to really get panicked about you know because you're a public figure you're always in the Limelight and I see some people fawning over you and some people are very aeric very critical how how do you
Questionervery aeric very critical how how do you stay mentally resilient in the face of all these expectations and comments and Warr Buffett talks about the inner scorecard and the outer scorecard right and in fact when we met him for lunch he said would you like to be the greatest lover in the world and known as the worst or would you like to be the worst lover in the world and known as the greatest and he said if you know how to answer that question you got it all set I noticed that sometimes I would interact with people and they would only have negative comments on people like Gandhi so they would bring up all these negative things about Mahatma Gandhi when I would try to tell them some positive things about Gandhi they would brush it off and say no he's a very cunning man and he was this and that and all these things so the way I look at it is that there are
Otherthe way I look at it is that there are people who are very critical of Warren Buffett there people who are very critical of Charlie Munger there people are very critical of Jesus Christ people very critical of Mahatma Gandhi so if they are critical of me I'm very low life compared to all of these people so the way I look at it is that if I can learn from the critics that's great but I focus on I try to focus on an inner scorecard putting the chips where they are and the good bad and ugly basically looking at it from a holistic point of view and so not thinking that I'm awesome and not thinking I'm the worst person but trying to have a sense of reality so external folks coming to me and fawning over or being critical doesn't have much impact either of them don't have much impact I try to look at it from a internal point of view you know the late American investor
Questioneryou know the late American investor Julian Robertson of tiger management he employed a psychoanalyst Dr Aaron Stern to tell him how they looked at how people in his team looked at risk and how they worked together so Stern used to like the Sports Guide because it made them very comparative at work he also liked generalists not the specialist because they understood multitude angles to a story now the reason I'm bringing this up is because decades ago you employed two industrial psychologists to do a 360 degree analysis on you and they did a bunch of tests on you they interviewed your spouses your friends your employees your colleagues and they helped you fathom who you were on the outside Visa the inside now here's my question to you if you had to do the test today how would you fair are you perfectly aligned who you are inside
Otherperfectly aligned who you are inside with the role and the image you project on the outside would you fare very well today I mean those guys were a godsent you know and I think initiative that I went through cost me $2,000 then probably one of the best $2,000 I spent and I think now they do it it's maybe north of 10,000 still a good deal but the mental m map of who we are is hardcoded at the age of five or six right and so that's not going to change that's from 6 to 60 to 96 it's going to St the same the further we are out of alignment from who we are on the inside the less the degree of Happiness we're going to have and less the degree of Effectiveness we're going to have so in an ideal situation you want to Le like a kind of perfectly align life and when I met them it was more like this it was misaligned and you know their whole idea was try to get as
Questionertheir whole idea was try to get as aligned as possible and I think there are some individuals we see who get to that perfect alignment because when you get to the perfect alignment you can go through brick walls I would say Warren Buffett and Charlie Munger pretty darn close to being perfectly aligned probably people like Bill Gates Steve Jobs you know bunch of folks we see very strong alignments Elon Musk probably very aligned internal external alignment once they gave me the map of who I was it made life a lot easier because I could see for the first time who I was on the inside I think I'm much closer to alignment than I've probably ever been since 1999 when I went through that so it's been like what 24 years and I've deliberately been trying in the last 24 years to more move closer towards an alignment with the inner self I still feel that I'm not
Questionerinner self I still feel that I'm not there I would say that probably I'm like you know I was something like this and maybe I'm more closer to somewhere here there's still some misalignment but that's what makes life fun for the future so we can keep working on that and yeah I do believe that if we can if I can ever get more closer to that the payoffs are exponential
Otherwow I'm sure you'll get there I'm sure of it yeah it's a fun journey I enjoy the journey
Questionerwhat makes you happy that's my last question what must happen in a day for you to say what a happy day this was you
Otherknow one of the things I try to do is I I actually look back on things that I've done recently and I asked myself did I enjoy that was that fun or what I try to do is that when I like something you know when I go and do something and I like it I try to increase that in my life and
QuestionerI try to increase that in my life and when I find something that I didn't like then I try to pushed that down so for example I've been playing bridge probably for like more than 35 maybe 36 37 years long time and when the kids were younger Etc Bridge kind of took a backseat you know a lot of family responsibilities and such I used to go for a lot of bridge tournaments you know in the 1980s we didn't have online Bridge so I used to go for like live tournaments and it was a lot of fun I mean I was single and I could go for three days to Michigan and play a bridge tournament Etc it was a lot of fun and recently I got back into online bridge and then more recently I decided that I'm going to increase my time for playing bridge live at tournaments because you know I'm a math guy I like to play games these are kind of fun things to do and I went
Warrenare kind of fun things to do and I went I spent like four or five days this summer in Chicago playing bridge like pretty much you know morning till evening and I hadn't done that in a long time in a live setting I hadn't done that in probably 15 20 years and I enjoyed that experience I just went for another tournament to Atlanta four or five days and again did that but I realized that while I enjoyed those experiences I could improve them one of the things I I'm going to change is that I want to keep learning and getting better better Bridge so I need to play with people who are much better than me the last two times I played in Chicago and Atlanta I played with people who were maybe at my level or a little lower so I could see that if I make that change that will increase the Euphoria on playing bridge the next national tournament is in Louisville Kentucky in
Othertournament is in Louisville Kentucky in March so I want to go for that but I'll only go for that when I if I can figure out the partners and team that I can be part of so basically I just look at uh things I do and the degree of enjoyment I have and then you know if I meet someone I really like it I'll try to increase the interaction with that person if I go to a place for dinner and I really like that I'll try to increase the times I like to go there so the foods I like to eat the people I like to be with the activities I like to do in all these cases I'm trying to increase uh happiness and I think if I'm I've been so deliberate about this for so many decades that life is very blessful lovely very few have that privilege very few of that yeah but I think it's not that hard for a lot of people because you know the best things in life are
Otheryou know the best things in life are free happiness doesn't correlate very much with wealth you know once you get past a certain base level that you've got you know a roof over your head and all of that and so if people just spent more time thinking about what would make them happier I think they would and take some deliberate actions on that they would get there absolutely lovely talking to you has made me happier all right that's great that's wonderful yeah made my day yeah but Mish thanks a million for your time I enjoyed every single moment thank you likewise and actually I I have to say Larisa that you hit the ball out of the park no one's asked me any of these questions before and it made a lot of fun for me so thank you very much I think you did a lot of work to get there so I appreciate that thank you thank you thank you so
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