Other[Music][Music][Music]hello and welcome to another episode of the warship live podcast our guest today is monish pablo monish is a legendary investor a shameless cloner and a very effective philanthropist he is both the author and the subject of several books monish is the founder and managing partner of fabry investment funds founder and ceo of dunder funds founder of the dakshina foundation and he is the author of the dunder investor and mosaic perspectives on investing monish welcome to the show and happy new year
Questionerthank you andy pleasure to be with you
Otheri figured you have the dunder fans the dunder investors can you tell us what does the word dando mean
Questioneryeah well dando is actually a gujarati word which is one of the regional languages of india the language of mahatma gandhi and the direct translation would mean business but the i would say the underlying real
Questionerbut the i would say the underlying real meaning of the word is doing business in a smart way kind of a way in which the risk is lowered and the return is high so it's it's a it's a word that encapsulates quite a bit it also is referential for your investment style right you i want to get into this a bit when researching for our interview at first my whole thing was like i'm gonna find like a question of something that they haven't asked it on the interview but then i just noticed you know like the dunning-kruger effect i i started to learn more about united areas it will be impossible to ask you anything that hasn't been asked before just because you're so free and so giving even with your time with the time you spend and so basically what i want to do today is i just get to my favorites and to have my favorites very very personally
Questionermy favorites very very personally and what i really liked from the dunderand what i really liked from the dunderand what i really liked from the dunder investor and if you could share theinvestor and if you could share theinvestor and if you could share the lessons that you learned or that youlessons that you learned or that youlessons that you learned or that you want to bring to people that the patelswant to bring to people that the patelswant to bring to people that the patels have done in in the hotel business ihave done in in the hotel business ihave done in in the hotel business i think that's a verythink that's a verythink that's a very good way to explain what dunder meansgood way to explain what dunder meansgood way to explain what dunder means and then we later can getand then we later can getand then we later can get into what does that have to do with yourinto what does that have to do with yourinto what does that have to do with your investment styleinvestment styleinvestment style
Questioneryeah so i think that patel story that iyeah so i think that patel story that iyeah so i think that patel story that i documented in the tandoo investordocumented in the tandoo investordocumented in the tandoo investor i think it's a it's a goodi think it's a it's a goodi think it's a it's a good foil forfoil forfoil for explainingexplainingexplaining both howboth howboth how kind of startups and entrepreneurialkind of startups and entrepreneurialkind of startups and entrepreneurial journeys workjourneys workjourneys work but also it dovetails into howbut also it dovetails into howbut also it dovetails into how investing works soinvesting works soinvesting works so basically at the highest levelbasically at the highest levelbasically at the highest level if you look atif you look atif you look at startups when people start businessesstartups when people start businessesstartups when people start businesses and i'm referring to non-venture-backedand i'm referring to non-venture-backedand i'm referring to non-venture-backed startups which is likestartups which is likestartups which is like probably 99.99 of all the startups youprobably 99.99 of all the startups youprobably 99.99 of all the startups you know the laundromat the chineseknow the laundromat the chineseknow the laundromat the chinese restaurant the pizza place you know therestaurant the pizza place you know the
Questionerrestaurant the pizza place you know the mom-and-pop cleaners and so on so when people start these businesses the common misnomer is that they're taking a lot of risk but what entrepreneurs try very hard to do is they try hard to minimize risk and they structure things in a manner where their downside is very limited and the upside is uh asymmetrically better and that approach uh which i would you know short form as the tandoor approach to entrepreneurship is what the patel's used and that same approach actually is quite powerful because it is the approach that ben graham used and then subsequently warren buffett and charlie bunger and so on so i think we have a lot of lessons we can learn on the investing side if we are able to understand how things work on the business side and the patel example is a really good one because they were very successful
Questionerthey were very successful at entering the motel business with very low capital outlays and then leveraging those low capital outlays into very strong cash flows and then that allowed them to kind of acquire more and more motels which got them today to the point where 70 80 percent of motels in the us are under patrol ownership and you yourself said you're an entrepreneur yourself you started the company you sold the company then you went into in investing and you relate a lot to this dunder approach of your investment style could you talk a bit about your journey from being the ben graham deep value investor and now recently you talk a lot more that 2020 and 2021 were like years of i would say enlightenment or like a new way of learning into investing into great compounders and you mentioned those terms a lot in in different um podcasts and
Questionerin different um podcasts and in different um podcasts and college lectures that you give could you explain to to our listeners a bit what is deep value for me what are great components and why did you make the switch in mindset
Questioneryeah
Otheractually you know when i started my investing journey in 94 at that time i focused mainly on compounders so i didn't start out being a ben graham investor i started out being more a monger investor looking looking for great businesses that had very strong growth engines and uh that that worked very very well from 94 till about 99 or 2000 but as we got to closer to 99 2000 there was a very serious bubble in the u.s equity markets we had the big.com bubble and and it was clear to me in late 99 even mid 99 that it was a bubble likely to pop i had no idea when it when or how it would pop but it was likely to pop i did not want to expose myself to that
Questionerexpose myself to that so at that point about 99 or so i made a switch where i went back to graham type of investing and what was happening in the us markets at that time was that very basic but good businesses were undervalued whereas these hyped-up businesses were you know kind of pets.com chem decks and so on were at you know stratospheric values and so the day for example the day the nasdaq peaked i think like march 7th or march 9 2000 was the day that berkshire hit a multi-year low so literally people were pulling money out of berkshire and putting it into patch.com and so i at that point was investing heavily into very basic businesses funeral homes and such and that worked very well what i what i forgot to do because it felt so comfortable and that bubble was such a massive bubble that i continued running down the gram
Otherthat i continued running down the gram pathpathpath forforfor the next uhthe next uhthe next uh almost 20 years and what i should havealmost 20 years and what i should havealmost 20 years and what i should have done is i should have probablydone is i should have probablydone is i should have probably uh the ideal time to have switched backuh the ideal time to have switched backuh the ideal time to have switched back tototo great compounders that have been in thegreat compounders that have been in thegreat compounders that have been in the 200920092009 to 2012 time frameto 2012 time frameto 2012 time frame i think at that point between 2009 andi think at that point between 2009 andi think at that point between 2009 and 121212 is whenis whenis when markets had corrected well enoughmarkets had corrected well enoughmarkets had corrected well enough that valuations have become morethat valuations have become morethat valuations have become more reasonable and what one could again lookreasonable and what one could again lookreasonable and what one could again look at great compoundersat great compoundersat great compounders but i had become so entrenched in thebut i had become so entrenched in thebut i had become so entrenched in the deep value area and have done so welldeep value area and have done so welldeep value area and have done so well over that period soover that period soover that period so form like for example fromform like for example fromform like for example from 99 200099 200099 2000 until uh 2007 i was compounding at youuntil uh 2007 i was compounding at youuntil uh 2007 i was compounding at you know mid 30s percent a year while the sknow mid 30s percent a year while the sknow mid 30s percent a year while the s s p with nasdaq had crasheds p with nasdaq had crasheds p with nasdaq had crashed and the s p and rao were like low singleand the s p and rao were like low singleand the s p and rao were like low single digits in that period they weredigits in that period they weredigits in that period they were struggling because they were so elevatedstruggling because they were so elevatedstruggling because they were so elevated in valuations but then in uh in 2020 iin valuations but then in uh in 2020 iin valuations but then in uh in 2020 i read uh the chapterread uh the chapterread uh the chapter on nick sleep and uhon nick sleep and uhon nick sleep and uh zach nick and zach
Otherzach nick and zach
Otherin william green's book
Otheri realized that i needed to go back to in the in the end the best place to invest is a great growing business that's really where you need to be the issue is that you need to be careful how much you're paying
Otherso every business has a value and we want to be buying things for well below that value buying great businesses at 80 times earnings typically is not going to be a great way to get rich so i made the switch back i was already used to the compounders and all of that and i just need to kind of reset my my frameworks and i've been in the process of doing that yes
Questioneryeah i actually came across you in william green's book and then i started looking into this and it was so interesting and you kind of answered one of the questions i would have had what is the difference between a great compounder
Questionerdifference between a great compounder and a growth stock because nowadays i mean there's always this battle between value stocks and growth stocks and kind of many people say that value investing is is dead now the markets are different but i think with this adding this thinking of great compounders is actually finding growth stocks at the value price am i getting this wrong how would do you think about this
Questionerwell so i would say that capitalism is very brutal it's competitive it's a doggy dog world most businesses are not going to be around forget even making a lot of money or not making money they're not even going to be around two or three decades after they are formed most startups will disappear in five or ten years but even the ones that make it past 10 years very few will make it past 20 or 30 years so there's a very small sliver of
Todd Combsthere's a very small sliver of businesses that survive for several decades and thrive for several decades so they have to have some kind of a moat which is enduring and durable and durable modes are very rare in capitalism they almost happen by accident almost uh entrepreneur most entrepreneurs who would start off saying i want to create a durable boat are going to fail they're very difficult to create sometimes you just stumble into them so if you look at a business like american express visa mastercard the payment system obviously payment is going through a lot of change but those businesses have been very resilient producing great returns on capital for a very long period of time especially after visa and national guard went public and became independent entities they've done quite well but most of most businesses overall
Todd Combsoverall are not going to be in this favored space of durable modes so we're not so much looking for growth we want growth but we want durability of that growth so for example if you look at a business like costco it's almost bulletproof you know it's not going anywhere amazon almost bulletproof not going anywhere these are very durable businesses so what we're looking for is strong durability with strong growth and that becomes a really really narrow sliver of capitalism and then on top of that we want a great price so the cherry on the cake is you want great growth you want great durability and you want a great price and when all these seven moons line up that's when you can make an investment so you can't do that very often i mean in a year if i find a couple of things i think i'm doing pretty well
Questionerhow many
Questionerhow many investment proposals how many companies do you look at in a year you said in another podcast like you invest into one to three bets a year how big is your top of funnel
Todd Combswell i think that would be a little bit difficult question to answer because i i look at hundreds and hundreds of businesses every year but most of them i probably spend less than maybe five minutes on maybe two three minutes on i spend very little time because it becomes very obvious very quickly that there's no there's no moat here or there's no growth here or there's no durability here so our a big reason to get rid of companies quickly is i don't understand them they're outside my circular competence so if i look at anything in pharmaceuticals it's gone before you can blink your eyes anything in healthcare i i think u.s healthcare does not operate with market
Warrenhealthcare does not operate with market forces u.s insurance health insurance forces u.s insurance health insurance forces u.s insurance health insurance companies don't operate marketplaces so companies don't operate marketplaces so companies don't operate marketplaces so i'm not interested in those kinds of i'm not interested in those kinds of i'm not interested in those kinds of businesses so businesses so businesses so large large large swaths of businesses swaths of businesses swaths of businesses just go away because they're just not in just go away because they're just not in just go away because they're just not in the the the sweet spot of what i would understand is sweet spot of what i would understand is sweet spot of what i would understand is i i look at a large number of businesses i look at a large number of businesses i look at a large number of businesses every year every year every year but i i spend most of my time on very but i i spend most of my time on very but i i spend most of my time on very few businesses few businesses few businesses
Questionerwhat gets what gets what gets at your attention in those first five at your attention in those first five at your attention in those first five minutes is there anything that comes to minutes is there anything that comes to minutes is there anything that comes to mind just like i look at the business mind just like i look at the business mind just like i look at the business and i wanna look into this deeper is and i wanna look into this deeper is and i wanna look into this deeper is there anything there anything there anything or is it a sixth sense that you've built or is it a sixth sense that you've built or is it a sixth sense that you've built up over the years you should say there's up over the years you should say there's up over the years you should say there's something there i want to look into it something there i want to look into it something there i want to look into it or is there anything any criteria or is there anything any criteria or is there anything any criteria looking at like looking at like looking at like price to earnings ratio or any stock price to earnings ratio or any stock price to earnings ratio or any stock price growth something like that where price growth something like that where price growth something like that where you say you say you say let's dig deeper let's dig deeper let's dig deeper
Warrenwell i mean i think for different
Questionerwell i mean i think for different businesses different things can trigger
Questioneryou so first of all one of the things that buffett says is unlock unlike baseball in investing there are no call strikes and so what that means is that if amazon crosses my desk at ten dollars a share maybe you know 18 years ago or 20 years ago and i'm too dense to figure it out and i let it go i don't pay a penalty for that uh what i pay a penalty for is if i make an investment in pets.com and it doesn't work so that's where you pay the penalty is if you actually make the bet not when you take a pass so we can be somewhat sloppy in what we select versus not don't select especially in terms of letting go some great businesses that happens a lot with me i'm sure there are lots and lots of businesses i look at which are very awesome businesses but i cannot see it so what i'm looking for is something
Questionerso what i'm looking for is something really quickly that grabs my attention maybe i would say i would say maybe a couple of decades ago i saw that in in value line one of the cross sections of or you know list of stocks they have is stocks with the lowest pe so they they follow 1700 stocks they list like 40 50 stocks will have the lowest fees and usually i scan those lists very quickly every week and they don't change that much week to week but you know that most businesses are there with pe's of two and three and four for very good reasons they don't make sense but i remember i saw over 20 years ago that there were two funeral services companies that were sitting at a pe of two i thought in my head that funeral services is a very stable business it's recurring revenue in the sense that we we know that a certain number of people will die every year
Warrenpeople will die every year in the united states we don't know who's in the united states we don't know who's in the united states we don't know who's going to die going to die going to die but we know how many are going to die but we know how many are going to die but we know how many are going to die and the other thing is that and the other thing is that and the other thing is that it's a protected business it's a protected business it's a protected business 21 year olds don't 21 year olds don't 21 year olds don't go into the business world saying i'm go into the business world saying i'm go into the business world saying i'm going to open a funeral services going to open a funeral services going to open a funeral services business and it also is tradition bound business and it also is tradition bound business and it also is tradition bound so when you're looking to have your last so when you're looking to have your last so when you're looking to have your last rights done rights done rights done you're looking for a place that has been you're looking for a place that has been you're looking for a place that has been around for a while around for a while around for a while and you're also looking for the service and you're also looking for the service and you're also looking for the service to be done properly so to be done properly so to be done properly so you don't go you don't go you don't go shopping for the low bed shopping for the low bed shopping for the low bed okay so you don't like you know when okay so you don't like you know when okay so you don't like you know when your uncle steve has died you don't call your uncle steve has died you don't call your uncle steve has died you don't call six places and get the lowest price and six places and get the lowest price and six places and get the lowest price and then say okay that's where we're gonna then say okay that's where we're gonna then say okay that's where we're gonna have the service have the service have the service unless uncle steve was real you unless uncle steve was real you unless uncle steve was real you know know know you don't want to go to the low cost you don't want to go to the low cost you don't want to go to the low cost provider and go to yeah you might then provider and go to yeah you might then provider and go to yeah you might then pick a cardboard box for it or something pick a cardboard box for it or something
Questionerpick a cardboard box for it or something you know so but you're generally going to not want to do those kinds of things
Questioneryeah so these businesses generally have good margins they don't face much competition and what had happened in the us a while back maybe about 25 30 years ago was there had been a massive roll-up in the in the funeral services industry
Questionerso they were all mom and pops all over the world all over the place and these two large two or three large companies came in and they bought them all they kept the same names and everything but they were owned by you know these two or three players
Questionerand these players got over leveraged and then the music stopped and then their stocks went into tail spins
Questionerand that's when i was looking at them so they they had a lot of leverage a lot of debt but the uh on a pure kind of free cash flow basis
Todd Combsfree cash flow basis they were sitting at two times earnings they were sitting at two times earnings they were sitting at two times earnings so i looked at i said i said okay there so i looked at i said i said okay there so i looked at i said i said okay there is a lot of debt is a lot of debt is a lot of debt can the debt be managed so can the debt be managed so can the debt be managed so i got intrigued because the pe was i got intrigued because the pe was i got intrigued because the pe was showing two showing two showing two and it said funeral services right so and it said funeral services right so and it said funeral services right so that was the trigger to dig further that was the trigger to dig further that was the trigger to dig further right and eventually i made the right and eventually i made the right and eventually i made the investment and it worked worked really investment and it worked worked really investment and it worked worked really well so there are different triggers you well so there are different triggers you well so there are different triggers you know another time i think in 2012 i was know another time i think in 2012 i was know another time i think in 2012 i was looking at the auto industry looking at the auto industry looking at the auto industry and i first looked at gm because a and i first looked at gm because a and i first looked at gm because a couple of guys had bought it and i was couple of guys had bought it and i was couple of guys had bought it and i was trying to understand why they would buy trying to understand why they would buy trying to understand why they would buy such a such a crappy business such a such a crappy business such a such a crappy business and and and i was then looking at fiat chrysler and i was then looking at fiat chrysler and i was then looking at fiat chrysler and i noticed that i noticed that i noticed that their revenues were 140 billion their revenues were 140 billion their revenues were 140 billion and the market cap was five billion so and the market cap was five billion so and the market cap was five billion so they were you know they were trading at they were you know they were trading at they were you know they were trading at like you know three percent like you know three percent like you know three percent four percent of revenue and there were a four percent of revenue and there were a four percent of revenue and there were a number of things that had happened
Questionernumber of things that had happened in the auto business in 2009 after the financial crisis which actually made the business really good because they got rid of a lot of the nonsense so that was another where the valuations was so cheap and a lot of the things that people hated about the business had actually changed so basically what you're you know there are some things we understand based on this understanding we can look at businesses and sometimes uh with our life experience when we look at a business we might say oh i i see something here and i should look at it but i've also missed so many like i mean to give you an example every time i go into a starbucks okay i just marvel i marvel at the incredible business settings so when they open a starbucks store it takes them like 18 to 24 months to get all their money back
Questionerget all their money back okay so you open a store and in outside okay so you open a store and in outside okay so you open a store and in outside the us the us the us they get it back in a year they get it back in a year they get it back in a year okay so the international starbucks and okay so the international starbucks and okay so the international starbucks and the other thing that i've known for a the other thing that i've known for a the other thing that i've known for a long time and they did this in new york long time and they did this in new york long time and they did this in new york city was city was city was you have a starbucks in you have a starbucks in you have a starbucks in a particular intersection a particular intersection a particular intersection you open another one diagonal from that you open another one diagonal from that you open another one diagonal from that intersection intersection intersection no change in the store sales of the no change in the store sales of the no change in the store sales of the original one original one original one you open a third one there's still no you open a third one there's still no you open a third one there's still no change so the demand the demand for change so the demand the demand for change so the demand the demand for starbucks coffee relates to the starbucks coffee relates to the starbucks coffee relates to the convenience convenience convenience you know so we don't even know where you know so we don't even know where you know so we don't even know where that end point is that end point is that end point is and you know i mean you know you take and you know i mean you know you take and you know i mean you know you take milk and coffee and whatever and you're milk and coffee and whatever and you're milk and coffee and whatever and you're charging four or five thousand dollars charging four or five thousand dollars charging four or five thousand dollars for it most of it for it most of it for it most of it is carried out is carried out is carried out they don't even they're not even in the they don't even they're not even in the they don't even they're not even in the store they're not using your facilities store they're not using your facilities store they're not using your facilities not using your wi-fi so not using your wi-fi so not using your wi-fi so a few people are in the store kind of a few people are in the store kind of a few people are in the store kind of gives the atmosphere but just it's an
Questionergives the atmosphere but just it's an incredible business okay and i always looked at it always thought it was expensive never bought it and it just keeps going you know and i've been you know a big big fan of chipotle for a long time i mean i think probably 20 years i've been a customer of chipotle right and i knew 20 years ago it was a great business and again you know just watching you know raising my navel instead of doing something and uh what an incredible business
Questionerdo you deal with this mentally do you do you look at this business like damn it had i invested i wish i had done that or is this like a little note in your head tracking it okay maybe i should next time when i see something like this should act does it change your thinking in any way or it's just like mental note gone i have to focus on the next winner
Questionerwell i think i think what what i have
Questionerwell i think i think what what i have you know like monger says we are old too soon and why is too late uh what is gradually sinking in is a willingness to pay up and the other thing that is sinking in is which is more important is a willingness to hold so it is not i mean the two big mistakes that i have made aren't i mean one is very obvious you know passing on a number of great businesses because they looked optically overpriced okay uh they in the end it turned out they were not overpriced but when you looked at them they were they looked expensive it's just that they were such awesome businesses you could have paid 30 40 times earnings and still done really well on them and the second more difficult thing is that you buy something that's an incredible business you know maybe it's available at 10 times earnings and you know it's worth 20 30 times
Questionerand you know it's worth 20 30 times earnings and it does well it gets to 20 30 30 earnings and you sell it and it keeps going and that's the other thing so so those are the two big mistakes is uh being too much of a cheapskate not paying up and being tomorrow i'm a cheapskate and not willing to hold and i'm hoping to get better at both of those so there's there's still a lot of learning and growth for me to do
Questionerwhat do you do to try to get better i don't know do you i for me i have like whenever i see something amazing i write it on a post and i post it to my monitor so i have like a couple of uh things used parkinson's and pareto's law to get more productive right do you anything like that do you have any post-its or do you have any other routines to not forget the lessons that you learned
Questionerno i think the main thing i try to hammer into my head every day is
Questionertry to hammer into my head every day is thethethe very simple notion that capitalism isvery simple notion that capitalism isvery simple notion that capitalism is very brutalvery brutalvery brutal there arethere arethere are very very few businesses that are trulyvery very few businesses that are trulyvery very few businesses that are truly exceptional businessesexceptional businessesexceptional businesses if you find yourself in the favoredif you find yourself in the favoredif you find yourself in the favored positionpositionposition of being an ownerof being an ownerof being an owner of such a businessof such a businessof such a business don't worry about the valuation so i'lldon't worry about the valuation so i'lldon't worry about the valuation so i'll give you an examplegive you an examplegive you an example when i made the fiat chrysler investmentwhen i made the fiat chrysler investmentwhen i made the fiat chrysler investment embedded inside that 5 billion nofa atembedded inside that 5 billion nofa atembedded inside that 5 billion nofa at chrysler was ferrari they owned like 90chrysler was ferrari they owned like 90chrysler was ferrari they owned like 90 of ferrari and then a few years laterof ferrari and then a few years laterof ferrari and then a few years later they took ferrari publicthey took ferrari publicthey took ferrari public i think ferrari is at about 270 a sharei think ferrari is at about 270 a sharei think ferrari is at about 270 a share right now andright now andright now and effectively when i look back and when ieffectively when i look back and when ieffectively when i look back and when i made the investment in 2012made the investment in 2012made the investment in 2012 i got my ferrari shares at about 13i got my ferrari shares at about 13i got my ferrari shares at about 13 so it's gone up about 20 times since theso it's gone up about 20 times since theso it's gone up about 20 times since the 2000 so2000 so2000 so 2012 to 2021 or 22 is about 20 times and2012 to 2021 or 22 is about 20 times and2012 to 2021 or 22 is about 20 times and the thing is that when they took itthe thing is that when they took itthe thing is that when they took it public it came public at 40 or 45 apublic it came public at 40 or 45 apublic it came public at 40 or 45 a shareshareshare and my thinking was that okay these guysand my thinking was that okay these guys
Todd Combsand my thinking was that okay these guys are pretty smart they when companies goare pretty smart they when companies goare pretty smart they when companies go publicpublicpublic they will try to extract you knowthey will try to extract you knowthey will try to extract you know maximum value they're not going to takemaximum value they're not going to takemaximum value they're not going to take it public when it's undervalued soit public when it's undervalued soit public when it's undervalued so i thoughti thoughti thought maybe ferrari is worth 50 60 a share ormaybe ferrari is worth 50 60 a share ormaybe ferrari is worth 50 60 a share or something who knows right it wasn't itsomething who knows right it wasn't itsomething who knows right it wasn't it wasn't the part of the business that iwasn't the part of the business that iwasn't the part of the business that i was very focused on i was focused on allwas very focused on i was focused on allwas very focused on i was focused on all their jeeps and ram trucks and all oftheir jeeps and ram trucks and all oftheir jeeps and ram trucks and all of that and i really figured that businessthat and i really figured that businessthat and i really figured that business out this business was a little strangeout this business was a little strangeout this business was a little strange becausebecausebecause it came public at like 40 times earningsit came public at like 40 times earningsit came public at like 40 times earnings so that already is you knowso that already is you knowso that already is you know above my pay gradeabove my pay gradeabove my pay grade you knowyou knowyou know i didn't think it's going to go to 200i didn't think it's going to go to 200i didn't think it's going to go to 200 times earningstimes earningstimes earnings and so uh you know i i think i sold someand so uh you know i i think i sold someand so uh you know i i think i sold some ferrari at 60 and 100ferrari at 60 and 100ferrari at 60 and 100 and maybe 130 and so on and all thoseand maybe 130 and so on and all thoseand maybe 130 and so on and all those prices i felt were pretty goodprices i felt were pretty goodprices i felt were pretty good and in hindsightand in hindsightand in hindsight you knowyou knowyou know the unfortunate thing was i bought athe unfortunate thing was i bought athe unfortunate thing was i bought a ferrariferrariferrari but i bought it after i'd sold the stock
Todd Combsbut i bought it after i'd sold the stock i really understood the business after i bought my car and that's when i realized what the motor ferrari is and why it is such a i mean ferrari is a cup is a business that can earn whatever it wants it can have whatever net income it decides it wants it's it's got it's a it's in a very favored position they are one of the most well recognized brands in the world and in 70 plus years of history they have never spent a dollar in advertising there is no other brand i know that's in the top ten or top five most well-known brands on the planet that got there without a boatload of advertising just look at coke for example oh yeah you know you know so what i'm just saying that this is a very unusual business where even today from you know 2022 going back to 1950 when when enzo ferrari formed the business they have never advertised
Questionerthey have never advertised that's crazy i mean did you then try to revise your mistake of selling and even at a higher valuation try to get the shares back after you understood understood the motor is this hot dog that is usually too painful for a brain like mine and too much about my prey grade i've never been able to do that really and of course you already paid the penalty you paid the taxes you've paid all that another one was the chinese company mao tai you know that was another one that i
Warrenyou know it's it's the most valuable liquor company in the world now and you know it's a brand you never heard of but it's worth 700 billion dollars it's worth a lot more than the top two or three companies put together and maota is a business where you know a bottle of multi uh sells for about i don't know i might be must be much higher now
Charliebe must be much higher now north of about twelve hundred dollars or north of about twelve hundred dollars or fifteen hundred dollars it's a small bottle and that costs i i visited the maota factory in china i i visited the maota factory in china middle of nowhere i think the cost per bottle must be less than three dollars bottle must be less than three dollars you know it's one hell of a business and 80 or 90 of the multi sold in china 80 or 90 of the multi sold in china is counterfeit so so the demand is so high the demand is so high and the company cannot keep up with the and the company cannot keep up with the demand demand that even the fake stuff gets sold at that even the fake stuff gets sold at those prices even though they try so hard hard to and and they come up with these to and and they come up with these special editions special editions forty thousand a bottle seventy thousand forty thousand a bottle seventy thousand a bottle a bottle gone fifteen minutes gone fifteen minutes that's really a collector's item at one that's really a collector's item at one point point yeah yeah well so when they crack down on well so when they crack down on corruption in china because it used to corruption in china because it used to be that you be that you took these government officials out for took these government officials out for lunch or dinner lunch or dinner and you you know and you you know gave them multi to drink and then you
Othergave them multi to drink and then you know your projects got approved
Otherit became such that in china if you were a government official caught dining somewhere someone took a picture with maota on the table that was pretty much the end of your career
Otheruh because uh nothing nothing clean was going on when there was multi on the table
Otherlike that when that happened that's when the stock tanked
Otherbecause so much of their sales for this type of entertainment that's actually when i had bought the stock
Otherbecause you know that if if this is the typical if they clamp down on that the demand is still high so other people
Otheryeah and the thing is the rise of china is still going on i mean the thing is that maota is very limited in terms of the quantities it can produce
Otherbut chinese per capita gdp is going to double triple quadruple in the next few decades and so all those
Questionerin the next few decades and so all those hundreds of millions of people who suddenly become upper middle class or rich they have very few ways to express their wealth and then they go to it's like the lvmh of china event i mean like if you look at all the european luxury brands lv lvmh and so on look at what portion of their sales not only in china but to chinese origin people all over the world so you are still very bullish on on the chinese market
Questioneri think in general china is going to keep rising uh they are in naturally entrepreneurial people which was who were artificially kept in a non-capitalist system so that that genie is out of the bottle and they are rising they are getting more educated they're getting better infrastructure so i think that it's going to keep continuing for a while yeah
Questioneri want to switch gears just a little bit and this is something that
Questionerand this is something that i i found that it got reminded of a lot in in one of the lectures you talk about peter thiel how competition is for losers you often talk about finding monopolists the 100 beggars and the great returns and to to find great compounders this really reminds me of of of the venture capital and private equity business because i also talked with a lot of venture capitalists and and and their investment approach seems on the outside very similarly try to find a company with a moat and then fund that to the next stage did you ever think about think about think about investing into the private markets or investing into the private markets or investing into the private markets or was it always for you to ca um the was it always for you to ca um the was it always for you to ca um the public markets
Warrenwell i think i think the public markets well i think i think the public markets well i think i think the the venture capital game the venture capital game the venture capital game is a much more difficult game it's a is a much more difficult game it's a is a much more difficult game it's a very hard game and in fact it it shows very hard game and in fact it it shows very hard game and in fact it it shows up because up because up because you know i think uh i think the the guy you know i think uh i think the the guy you know i think uh i think the the guy at uh at yale had written about it in
Questionerat uh at yale had written about it in his book if you look at the top quartile bond fund managers and the bottom quartile bond fund managers you would make almost no difference in returns between them you know hundreds of basis points or tens of basis points difference and analyze returns almost non-existent and there's no correlation if you're in the top quartile in one quarter you're at the bottom in the next and you're in deferred and you're in the in the last so as an investor you could throw a dart and pick a bond fund manager it will not hurt yourself okay in the venture capital business there's a night and day difference between top and bottom quartile so sequoia fund has been you know not not just top quartile they've been top five percent of three percent for decades and i have i have a number of investors uh from silicon valley who are venture
Questioneruh from silicon valley who are ventureuh from silicon valley who are venture capitalists who have invested in my fundcapitalists who have invested in my fundcapitalists who have invested in my fund andandand when i talk to them you know theywhen i talk to them you know theywhen i talk to them you know they they'll say to me lookthey'll say to me lookthey'll say to me look if we had access to sequoia's garbageif we had access to sequoia's garbageif we had access to sequoia's garbage cancancan you know the stuff that they've turnedyou know the stuff that they've turnedyou know the stuff that they've turned downdowndown our analyze returns would tripleour analyze returns would tripleour analyze returns would triple okay because in the venture business aokay because in the venture business aokay because in the venture business a big part of the issue is the deal flowbig part of the issue is the deal flowbig part of the issue is the deal flow rightrightright what deals are coming to youwhat deals are coming to youwhat deals are coming to you and so brandand so brandand so brand drives dealsdrives dealsdrives deals sososo anderson horowitz or y combinator oranderson horowitz or y combinator oranderson horowitz or y combinator or sequoia all these you know brand namessequoia all these you know brand namessequoia all these you know brand names they're gonna see the dealsthey're gonna see the dealsthey're gonna see the deals okayokayokay and if you're some you know mickey mouseand if you're some you know mickey mouseand if you're some you know mickey mouse uh venture capitalist who's put up auh venture capitalist who's put up auh venture capitalist who's put up a shingle and opened a shop you knowshingle and opened a shop you knowshingle and opened a shop you know whatever deals come to you trust me 300whatever deals come to you trust me 300whatever deals come to you trust me 300 other people have turned it downother people have turned it downother people have turned it down before it's come to youbefore it's come to youbefore it's come to you okayokayokay you are the 301st person looking at ityou are the 301st person looking at ityou are the 301st person looking at it and so that's your universe to pick fromand so that's your universe to pick fromand so that's your universe to pick from and the results are going to so i thinkand the results are going to so i thinkand the results are going to so i think there are two issues
Questionerthere are two issues with venture capital one is the deal flow is a very big deal and you're not going to be able to just get the team flow the second is obviously a place like sequoia or anderson horowitz etc they've got great dna so not only are they seeing the deal flow they actually have some expertise in sifting through what might be good or not so good and then i think the biggest issue with venture capital is there are no trademarks so when when i look at businesses if i look at a starbucks or i look at chipotle or i look at multi or ferrari there's a lot of trend trademarks right and there's a lot of history in those businesses and we can make bets based on the history uh here you know how are you going to tell the difference between theranos and apple okay they're both wearing turtlenecks okay how are you going to tell the
Otherokay how are you going to tell the difference and one's blonde so you might go for the blonde you know and why you might go for the blonde versus steve jobs you know so it's i think that the treadmills are not there and so you're you're you're forced to make decisions with very little very little history and data because you know you can tell if somebody has a great business model you might buy into the business model but then they may have no execution abilities okay or they can execute but the business model is wrong and they're not willing to change it so there's so many different variables that come in that uh i don't think it's a game i would be good at i probably it seems like the decision criteria and what you're looking for is very similar just that you have access to a lot more data yeah and it's the public markets aren't even playing field basically for everybody
Questionerplaying field basically for everybody that wants to look right you can get that wants to look right you can get that wants to look right you can get better reports you can better reports you can better reports you can buy a bloomberg but honestly everything buy a bloomberg but honestly everything buy a bloomberg but honestly everything is going to be on yahoo finance anyway is going to be on yahoo finance anyway is going to be on yahoo finance anyway
Ted Weschleryeah i mean i think the the key with value investing is value investing is value investing is we don't have an information edge we don't have an information edge we don't have an information edge we have an analytics edge we have an analytics edge we have an analytics edge okay so it's not that okay so it's not that okay so it's not that i'm i'm able to i'm i'm able to i'm i'm able to i'm able to know i'm able to know i'm able to know some some some inside information about the funeral inside information about the funeral inside information about the funeral business business business that's not where the issue is the issue that's not where the issue is the issue that's not where the issue is the issue is that i'm is that i'm is that i'm for me the key thing there was for me the key thing there was for me the key thing there was i concluded that this was a great i concluded that this was a great i concluded that this was a great business business business in a bad capital structure in a bad capital structure in a bad capital structure can it withstand that capital structure can it withstand that capital structure can it withstand that capital structure and transcend it that was a question and transcend it that was a question and transcend it that was a question right and so right and so right and so i was able to do the work to figure it i was able to do the work to figure it i was able to do the work to figure it out so it's usually we have no out so it's usually we have no out so it's usually we have no information edge information edge information edge we have an analytics edge we have an analytics edge we have an analytics edge and uh and and and that can i mean like and uh and and and that can i mean like and uh and and and that can i mean like for example the largest position i have for example the largest position i have for example the largest position i have right now i don't talk much about my
Todd Combsright now i don't talk much about my current portfolio but the largest position we have is micron technology it's in the memory business and for the longest time the memory business for decades was a terrible business boom and bust too many players someone innovates cuts their cost in half now all your inventory is the price of your inventory is above the selling price and you're losing money while they're they're making money hands over fist till you catch up and maybe you can catch up or maybe you don't and it was all of that going on moore's law and you know prices declining till we hit a point where we were left with three players and we got left with i think three rational players and the game changed now everyone saw that there were three players but they had so much history and pain from the decades in the memory business that they
Questionerdecades in the memory business that they refused to believe that anything was going to be different and my thesis what three four years ago was it's completely different so the thing is that if you look at a amazon data center and if it costs them you know 200 million or 100 million to put that up about 30 of that is going to the memory guys so it's a tax on all the streaming all the e-commerce all the shopping on everything 30 tax i'm sitting collecting the tax it's a bit like nvidia for the artificial intelligence blockchain game no matter where the future goes you need an nvidia graphics card to to run it right yeah and uh yeah so i think i think the thing is that now you know it's it's in a industry with rapid change so we'll see the thesis is still playing out the thesis is still playing out the thesis is still playing out we will see how it works but i like the you know upside down side scenario now i
Questionernow inow i wanna don'twanna don'twanna don't use too much of your time but i have ause too much of your time but i have ause too much of your time but i have a couple ofcouple ofcouple of burning questions that that i still hadburning questions that that i still hadburning questions that that i still had andandand theytheythey i'm gonna probably go a bit random herei'm gonna probably go a bit random herei'm gonna probably go a bit random here now just because i want to really getnow just because i want to really getnow just because i want to really get those those questions in and one of thisthose those questions in and one of thisthose those questions in and one of this might i don't know if it seems randommight i don't know if it seems randommight i don't know if it seems random butbutbut after i started researching one of theafter i started researching one of theafter i started researching one of the first tweets i saw from youfirst tweets i saw from youfirst tweets i saw from you was thatwas thatwas that you said investors need to be like pottyyou said investors need to be like pottyyou said investors need to be like potty from seinfeld they need to love watchingfrom seinfeld they need to love watchingfrom seinfeld they need to love watching paint drypaint drypaint dry and it was this gift when uh party wasand it was this gift when uh party wasand it was this gift when uh party was next to this woman on the on the planenext to this woman on the on the planenext to this woman on the on the plane and she started reading he just staresand she started reading he just staresand she started reading he just stares at the seat in front of me she asked himat the seat in front of me she asked himat the seat in front of me she asked him are you going to watch the movie are youare you going to watch the movie are youare you going to watch the movie are you going to take a nap are you going togoing to take a nap are you going togoing to take a nap are you going to read a book he's like no no no and itread a book he's like no no no and itread a book he's like no no no and it just she just goes completely nutsjust she just goes completely nutsjust she just goes completely nuts because he's so calmbecause he's so calmbecause he's so calm and you know uh by the end of thatand you know uh by the end of thatand you know uh by the end of that flight she's broken up with him
Questionerflight she's broken up with himflight she's broken up with him that's not in the clip you saw but ifthat's not in the clip you saw but ifthat's not in the clip you saw but if you see that episode yeah so he'syou see that episode yeah so he'syou see that episode yeah so he's sitting there doing nothing right he'ssitting there doing nothing right he'ssitting there doing nothing right he's not bothering her he's not doingnot bothering her he's not doingnot bothering her he's not doing anythinganythinganything she's so bothered with him watching theshe's so bothered with him watching theshe's so bothered with him watching the back of the seatback of the seatback of the seat that by the end of the flight they'rethat by the end of the flight they'rethat by the end of the flight they're broken upbroken upbroken up why do investors need to be like partywhy do investors need to be like partywhy do investors need to be like party what's the you know the mental thing ofwhat's the you know the mental thing ofwhat's the you know the mental thing of watching pain dry that that helps youwatching pain dry that that helps youwatching pain dry that that helps you being betterbeing betterbeing better
Warreni think thei think thei think the thethethe the biggest mistakethe biggest mistakethe biggest mistake all of us makeall of us makeall of us make is being too activeis being too activeis being too active you know one of the things i've learnedyou know one of the things i've learnedyou know one of the things i've learned a lot the most i've learned from mya lot the most i've learned from mya lot the most i've learned from my friend grace pierrefriend grace pierrefriend grace pierre isisis he's the laziest guy i knowhe's the laziest guy i knowhe's the laziest guy i know okay for me to get guy to trade anythingokay for me to get guy to trade anythingokay for me to get guy to trade anything buy anything or sell anythingbuy anything or sell anythingbuy anything or sell anything it's like doing a root canal it's notit's like doing a root canal it's notit's like doing a root canal it's not happening okayhappening okayhappening okay he is not interested in making changeshe is not interested in making changeshe is not interested in making changes to the portfolioto the portfolioto the portfolio and that is a tremendous skilland that is a tremendous skilland that is a tremendous skill that's a great skill and and guy spends
Questionerthat's a great skill and and guy spends a lot of time trying to get into businesses which he thinks have extreme durability you know and he thinks many of the businesses i go into don't have that durability and and definitely doesn't want to do these swaps so i think it's a huge advantage because the the problem is for most businesses the time frame over which change and the valuation starts reflecting what you think it should be can be many years and it doesn't you know it's definitely completely out of sync with watching a screen you know i mean uh in the case of fiat chrysler if i had done nothing after buying the stock 10 years ago it's a 12x in 10 years okay but i didn't get the 12x okay because my manager died on me okay a big part of my thesis was sergio marchionne he passed away i'm like left middle of the atlantic without us without a paddle okay what am
Questionerwithout us without a paddle okay what am i supposed to do here so i think that if you can just be very patient and let these things play out and you know get in bed with with good businesses good economics let them play out patience is the name of the game so be like party like party party is out here be like party and then and another question that i have is you in your lecture at boston college you talked to the students and then you said arvind has some amazing investors that he's gonna bring on but you never said in the lecture itself so i was like sitting on the edge i was like monish tell me who do i have to laugh next on the podcast who do i have else who else is someone that is that you are looking to and like you said you clone a lot right so you look into the portfolios of other investors that's how you found gm who are other investors that you say
Questionerwho are other investors that you say that are making a name currently for themselves
Otherwell i think i think data roma is a good place to look uh it's a good website it gives you a good list of of of investors i think that uh there are uh a bunch of names i think if you just uh you know on twitter and follow certain certain feeds and such i think it's the usual suspects josh tarasoff is a is a good guy and so i think there's a rv capital is i think in in switzerland uh rob finale i think his name is so so uh there there are a bunch of people like that who are pretty good to talk to
Questionerokay i'll have a i look out for them see you guys can i get in touch with and now i have two more two more questions and then i'll let you go on about your day the one is it is again very random but i i loved you say that quote and i'm gonna mispronounce it i apologize the
Questionergonna mispronounce it i apologize the arpin shots about your desire could you just talk a bit about what that quote means to you if you if you know which one i mean
Otheruh i'm sorry which which quote uh you're talking about
Questioneroh the opening shots you are what your deepest desire is
Otheryeah yeah yeah um yeah i let me see if i can remember it yeah i think it is like as is your wish so is your will as is your will so is your deed as is your deed so is your destiny and then the punch line bringing it all together is your deepest desire is your destiny and and i truly saw the open issues were written about you know 2500 3000 years ago they're really more philosophical books than religious books uh i see a lot of wisdom in them i truly believe that and i think if you if you follow you know great entrepreneurs if you if you look at someone like warren buffett at 24 he was
Questionersomeone like warren buffett at 24 he was telling his wife i want to become the wealthiest person and she was saying yeah whatever you know and bill gates wanted to put you know a desktop on every desk right and and so i think that if you have a wish and a will and you truly put everything into it uh it is going to happen
Questionerthis is thank you for sharing this i just i i know it really doesn't fit into the whole value investing sphere but i thought just such a good quote and how did you find your deepest desire do you have any pointers on how should people go about this is it for you journaling or is it just you kind of have to figure it out
Otheryeah so i think uh i was wandering aimlessly in the wilderness till until i was about 35 years old and at the age of 35 quite by accident 34 actually i had these two industrial psychologists who basically
Questionerpsychologists who basically did a 360 analysis of me we were doing a retreat so this was part of that retreat we were doing part of the group i was called called ypo and they gave me what i call my owner's manual and the this 20 page document they gave me which i tried to reread every year explained to me who i was and till then i didn't know who i was so what happens is when we grow up you know the world expects us to do certain things certain ways and they expect you to do and follow certain paths and you just go down that path because you don't know any better right but each of us is wired differently and each of us has you know traits and desires and passions that are different from the next person and so what what they were able to do in the owner's manual is tell me who i was in terms of the type of types of things i like to do
Warrenthe type of types of things i like to do and the types of activities i was likelyand the types of activities i was likelyand the types of activities i was likely to not only like to do but be reallyto not only like to do but be reallyto not only like to do but be really good atgood atgood at andandand so for example one of the things theyso for example one of the things theyso for example one of the things they pointed out to me they said bonus youpointed out to me they said bonus youpointed out to me they said bonus you are a game playerare a game playerare a game player and they said but you are not justand they said but you are not justand they said but you are not just any game player you're a game player whoany game player you're a game player whoany game player you're a game player who likes certain types of gameslikes certain types of gameslikes certain types of games so they said the type of games you likeso they said the type of games you likeso they said the type of games you like number onenumber onenumber one the outcome the result has to depend onthe outcome the result has to depend onthe outcome the result has to depend on you aloneyou aloneyou alone so you are not a guy whoso you are not a guy whoso you are not a guy who would bewould bewould be really thrilled to be on the soccer teamreally thrilled to be on the soccer teamreally thrilled to be on the soccer team okay because the end result of the gookay because the end result of the gookay because the end result of the go game depends on the other 10 guys toogame depends on the other 10 guys toogame depends on the other 10 guys too not just younot just younot just you so you don't have control over theso you don't have control over theso you don't have control over the outcome so soccer's out for yououtcome so soccer's out for yououtcome so soccer's out for you cricket's out for you and so on tenniscricket's out for you and so on tenniscricket's out for you and so on tennis singles tennis might work you know sosingles tennis might work you know sosingles tennis might work you know so they said first of all you're a gamethey said first of all you're a gamethey said first of all you're a game player who likes to play games where youplayer who likes to play games where youplayer who likes to play games where you control the outcome so you are not acontrol the outcome so you are not acontrol the outcome so you are not a team sport game player
Questionerteam sport game player the second is he says you like to play the second is he says you like to play the second is he says you like to play games games games where you have an inkling that you have where you have an inkling that you have where you have an inkling that you have an edge an edge an edge so if it's a single player game and you so if it's a single player game and you so if it's a single player game and you know that you have some edge know that you have some edge know that you have some edge it really excites you it really excites you it really excites you and when you play those games where you and when you play those games where you and when you play those games where you have that edge have that edge have that edge you will completely kill it you will completely kill it you will completely kill it so at that time when they were telling so at that time when they were telling so at that time when they were telling me all this me all this me all this i was running this i was running this i was running this 170 person company 170 person company 170 person company where i had a bunch of vice presidents where i had a bunch of vice presidents where i had a bunch of vice presidents it's a company i had founded it's a company i had founded it's a company i had founded but i hated going to work but i hated going to work but i hated going to work my job had turned into like my job had turned into like my job had turned into like hr management hr management hr management and you know just and you know just and you know just managing politics with a bunch of yo-yos managing politics with a bunch of yo-yos managing politics with a bunch of yo-yos okay so they looked at that and said okay so they looked at that and said okay so they looked at that and said this is so far away this is so far away this is so far away from who you are from who you are from who you are because you are the single person player because you are the single person player because you are the single person player in this 170 person team in this 170 person team in this 170 person team which is host in so many different ways which is host in so many different ways which is host in so many different ways so they told me so they told me so they told me sell it or find someone else to run it sell it or find someone else to run it sell it or find someone else to run it as quickly as possible and they didn't as quickly as possible and they didn't
Otheras quickly as possible and they didn't even tell me that i was miserableeven tell me that i was miserableeven tell me that i was miserable i loved that company when it was onei loved that company when it was onei loved that company when it was one personpersonperson and i hated it with 170 people so theand i hated it with 170 people so theand i hated it with 170 people so the first thing i did when i finished thatfirst thing i did when i finished thatfirst thing i did when i finished that whole exercise with them is i started awhole exercise with them is i started awhole exercise with them is i started a search for a ceo and then six monthssearch for a ceo and then six monthssearch for a ceo and then six months that happened i was gone but then i atthat happened i was gone but then i atthat happened i was gone but then i at that time i was just thinking ofthat time i was just thinking ofthat time i was just thinking of starting propriety funds and i explainedstarting propriety funds and i explainedstarting propriety funds and i explained to themto themto them about baby fundsabout baby fundsabout baby funds and they looked at it and said it'sand they looked at it and said it'sand they looked at it and said it's perfectperfectperfect this is perfect for youthis is perfect for youthis is perfect for you single-player game everything's fine andsingle-player game everything's fine andsingle-player game everything's fine and one of themone of themone of them became one of my first investors so ibecame one of my first investors so ibecame one of my first investors so i told him listen i have no track record itold him listen i have no track record itold him listen i have no track record i don't want to lose your money man don'tdon't want to lose your money man don'tdon't want to lose your money man don't give me your money right they saidgive me your money right they saidgive me your money right they said monish i cracked your head open i sawmonish i cracked your head open i sawmonish i cracked your head open i saw everything in thereeverything in thereeverything in there i am not going to lose my money and he'si am not going to lose my money and he'si am not going to lose my money and he's got a 16x on it so fargot a 16x on it so fargot a 16x on it so far so he's he's he was he was rightso he's he's he was he was rightso he's he's he was he was right andandand but i think that i think the important
Otherbut i think that i think the important thing is so miles brings him he's like a poor man's version of that so there's this uh industrial uh industrial psychologist his name is jack skeen he was one of the two guys dr jack skeen who did this for me just i i would say if you just nudge me after this i'll give you his contact info and he's got limited bandwidth i don't know how many viewers you have or subscribers but he can handle a few and he does uh does this for he's done this for a bunch of people who have sent to him and it's been great for them i will definitely do this i i was just thinking i need to do this retreat i have i have four more years to figure it out and then if if it gets me to where you are today if i manage this in four years i'm really i'm gonna be really happy with my life so thank you monish this is uh one of my main takeaways for today i love
Questionerof my main takeaways for today i love that i took this little detour into desires just to get this answer i loved everything else of course about our conversation thank you monish for everything you put out here it's been amazing for me to see i i love what you do i i'm so happy that i found william green's book just it got me to this point today and if it's gonna get me to the retreat and then at 35 find my deepest desire this has been one of the most productive hours of my life so far so monish thank you so much
Otherandy i really enjoyed the conversation the hour went by really fast yes and i'm looking forward to actually uh listening to it once you put it out so it'll be great yes of course i will send you everything and hopefully we can do a round two i have a list of about 60 questions left that i hadn't gone through to ask so um this will be uh it would be a pleasure to do it again with you awesome monish thank you so much
Questionerokay thank you andy