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Questionermonish it's very nice to be you so mymonish it's very nice to be you so mymonish it's very nice to be you so my name is ashin I'm from the Oxford Alphaname is ashin I'm from the Oxford Alphaname is ashin I'm from the Oxford Alpha fund and I'm here with the co-presidentfund and I'm here with the co-presidentfund and I'm here with the co-president sth also from the Oxford Alpha fundsth also from the Oxford Alpha fundsth also from the Oxford Alpha fund and so so I mean at o we are a premierand so so I mean at o we are a premierand so so I mean at o we are a premier student investment Society here atstudent investment Society here atstudent investment Society here at Oxford we mainly focus on fundamentalOxford we mainly focus on fundamentalOxford we mainly focus on fundamental investing and that's I guess exactlyinvesting and that's I guess exactlyinvesting and that's I guess exactly what monish does as well what he's sowhat monish does as well what he's sowhat monish does as well what he's so good at so maybe let's start right fromgood at so maybe let's start right fromgood at so maybe let's start right from the very beginning so what really gotthe very beginning so what really gotthe very beginning so what really got you into investing and your backgroundyou into investing and your backgroundyou into investing and your background when did you get started and how did youwhen did you get started and how did youwhen did you get started and how did you get started
Questioneryeah so my entry into theget started yeah so my entry into theget started yeah so my entry into the world of investment was kind ofworld of investment was kind ofworld of investment was kind of accidental Iaccidental Iaccidental I I'm an engineer by training and I didn'tI'm an engineer by training and I didn'tI'm an engineer by training and I didn't I wasn't working in the industry orI wasn't working in the industry orI wasn't working in the industry or anything like that I was R running a ITanything like that I was R running a ITanything like that I was R running a IT Services System immigration firm aboutServices System immigration firm aboutServices System immigration firm about 29 years ago and and I accidentally29 years ago and and I accidentally29 years ago and and I accidentally heard about Warren Buffett for the firstheard about Warren Buffett for the firstheard about Warren Buffett for the first time I was actually reading a Peter
Questionertime I was actually reading a Peter Lynch book and which I found very interesting and then he was talking about this guy Buffett in very reverential terms and I didn't know who Warren was and I was lucky the first couple of biographies on him had come out which were great to read and then I got my hands on the books letters and then the partnership letters and basically opened up a big new world for me and as an outsider looking into the industry at that time I made some observations which I found very peculiar one of the observations I made is that the the way that Warren Buffett invested and suggested that people follow investing was quite different from the way I saw professional mutual fund investors invest so the mutual funds would have hundreds of positions they would have 80% turnover in a year and like the
Questioner80% turnover in a year and like the first you know the premise of Buffett is that you're not investing in a stock you're buying a fraction of a business and to not over diversify and so on and there results the mutual fund results reflected that kind of you know nonadherence to what I call the basic principles of value investing and so I had a I had a theory at that time that if some Village ediot like me uh basically invested using Buffett's approach The Village Ed yet should do better than most of the professionals because the professionals clearly were violating basically what I would call the laws of investing or the laws of physics and but you know a notion like that doesn't have much value without execution behind it so I was lucky I had a sale of some Assets in my business for the first time I had some money I had a million dollars to basically which I
Questionermillion dollars to basically which I didn't need I could put into the equity markets and I basically said okay we're going to invest this million in what I called basically a 10x10 portfolio 10 stocks we going to see what the results are because that's where the ra Roe and this was in 94 95 and then I think by around early 2000 the million was north of 13 million and well done monish well done and and it was I don't know like 70% or something so it worked wildly better than I expected it definitely did better than the so-called professionals and and I was Off to the Races from there
Questioneryeah for sure I mean that sounds amazing and in fact I had a similar story too I mean I transp through buffer and manga the philosophy you know thinking about it as business rather than a stock and I think that's just so appealing and it makes so much
Questionerjust so appealing and it makes so much sense don't you agree that's kind of how we think about it at o as well and I think so is going to jump in with our next kind of our next seg of questions thank you that was really interesting
Questionersure yeah so a bit more about buffet and Munger the concept of Circle of competence is particularly important how have you worked to expand that over years of investing and how would you recommend other investors go about doing that for themselves
Questioneryeah I mean I think the you know we would we would all start out with a very small circle of competence usually usually probably the best area to that we likely have some competence is products and services that we are consuming you know those are probably the most likely candidates of businesses that might be the easiest for us to understand I don't I've never paid much attention to or tried to
Todd Combspaid much attention to or tried to expand the circle I think that kind of happens by osmosis and uh I don't think one should really even be trying to make the circle wider it it will naturally get wider if you have a diversified set of interest and if you are you know seeker of what manger would call worldly wisdom so I think that will and you if you have a curiosity about different things then the the circle kind of naturally expands as you go along but the size of the circle is not really correlated with investment success so and we see that all over the place so if you look at any successful entrepreneur they may be really good at their business but they may not know anything about anything else but just knowing enough about their business or their industry is sufficient for them to do quite well and manger talks about this friend of his and he passed away I
Otherthis friend of his and he passed away I think a couple of years ago John ARA he was a billionaire lived in the Bay Area and he was a real estate investor and he only invested in properties within a mile of the Stanford University campus not the Bay Area not California not the United States just that one mile radius around the Stanford campus and he did incredibly well and if if you would have walked with him around the perimeter of the campus he could pretty much tell you everything about every building you know what the rents were what the last time it was sold for what it's worth all these things and basically John ARA was selling off a lot of his properties when things got euphoric and he would buy them all back and others beyond that when things got overly pessimistic but he never drifted away from his circle of competence and and
Questionerfrom his circle of competence and and interestingly Mark andreon you know ofinterestingly Mark andreon you know ofinterestingly Mark andreon you know of of Andre and Horowitz and Netscape Fameof Andre and Horowitz and Netscape Fameof Andre and Horowitz and Netscape Fame dated and subsequently married ARA'sdated and subsequently married ARA'sdated and subsequently married ARA's daughter and so that's like billionairedaughter and so that's like billionairedaughter and so that's like billionaire to the power of billionaire you know andto the power of billionaire you know andto the power of billionaire you know and so anyway I think I think to me the ARAso anyway I think I think to me the ARAso anyway I think I think to me the ARA model is the model to follow which ismodel is the model to follow which ismodel is the model to follow which is basically it's better to be a inch widebasically it's better to be a inch widebasically it's better to be a inch wide and a mile deep than to be a mile wideand a mile deep than to be a mile wideand a mile deep than to be a mile wide and an inch deep so the deeper you canand an inch deep so the deeper you canand an inch deep so the deeper you can go into now of course the issue is thatgo into now of course the issue is thatgo into now of course the issue is that you can go into a rabbit hole which mayyou can go into a rabbit hole which mayyou can go into a rabbit hole which may not yield a lot of riches so there's annot yield a lot of riches so there's annot yield a lot of riches so there's an art to knowing which rabit holes to goart to knowing which rabit holes to goart to knowing which rabit holes to go down but if you if you go down a rabbitdown but if you if you go down a rabbitdown but if you if you go down a rabbit hole with a rich vein of opportunity youhole with a rich vein of opportunity youhole with a rich vein of opportunity you don't need too many rabbit holes anddon't need too many rabbit holes anddon't need too many rabbit holes and you'll do extremelyyou'll do extremelyyou'll do extremely well
Questionerwell I completely agree I thinkwell I completely agree I thinkwell I completely agree I think Nick sleep when he closed his portfolioNick sleep when he closed his portfolioNick sleep when he closed his portfolio he only had three thoughts and two ofhe only had three thoughts and two ofhe only had three thoughts and two of them had really similar models and I
Questionerthem had really similar models and I think you you're also friends and corresponds with Nick as well so this TR yes but maybe how did you meet Nick and like how is your kind of relationship developed I know he quite a private person as well fact I've reached out to him in the past but like maybe you could talk a bit about that as well
Otheryeah Nick is private with everyone except me W uh well actually Nick Nick's Nick's been a friend of guy spear for a long time and I'm trying to remember I'm not exactly sure how guy and uh Nick met whether they met at Burkshire or what happened but through guy I got to know Nick and I always enjoyed meeting and interacting acting with Nick and and and basically you know over time got to know him a bit better but no I mean to to put Jokes Aside he continues to be a private person even with me he's quite private but the
Questionerwith me he's quite private but the kimono does open a little bit more so that's okay but yeah I mean I think I think I think Nick Nick had a very simple model with him and his partner case and they basically would come into the office and case didn't even have a desk to work on he had a big kind a lazy boy type chair and he just spend his day they both spend his day reading annual reports and you know the Amazon annual report jumped out at them and of course the bushire annual report jumps out at all of us and they went deep into the Amazon rabbit hole and figured out a few things that the rest of us could not figure out and the rest is history yes yes I mean completely agreed I mean I've been I've read his letters I can't even count the number of times and I was so inspired by it I just learned so much from it every time you read them again
Questionerfrom it every time you read them again you learn something new you see something new and I just thought it's a really great gift that he shared it with everyone through the foundation and I think himself like yourself the charitable work that you guys do is really really commendable and here at we really appreciate that of course and it's great really great great role models um kind of touching on that idea a bit more about going to the rabbit hole and digging deeper so that kind of comes the idea of portfolio concentration and you know running a more concentrated set IDE ideas but you always run the risk of I guess getting it wrong like let's say with Valiant in 2015 to like 2016 lots of big investors were highly concentrated there and then how let's say in your experience how would you kind of know when you know this concentration and this digging into
Questionerthis concentration and this digging into the rabbit hole it's the wrong hole and the rabbit hole it's the wrong hole and the rabbit hole it's the wrong hole and it's time for you to switch and get out and you know stop digging yeah so I and you know stop digging yeah so I and you know stop digging yeah so I think that I think it was John Templeton think that I think it was John Templeton think that I think it was John Templeton who said that Sir John Templeton who who said that Sir John Templeton who who said that Sir John Templeton who said that basically the very best said that basically the very best said that basically the very best investment analyst will be wrong one out investment analyst will be wrong one out investment analyst will be wrong one out of three times and more likely most of of three times and more likely most of of three times and more likely most of us will be wrong half the time and us will be wrong half the time and us will be wrong half the time and so the investing business is an so the investing business is an so the investing business is an extremely forgiving business if if you extremely forgiving business if if you extremely forgiving business if if you ran a a 10 stock ran a a 10 stock ran a a 10 stock portfolio and you were wrong about half portfolio and you were wrong about half portfolio and you were wrong about half the stocks which is probably what you the stocks which is probably what you the stocks which is probably what you should expect would happen about half should expect would happen about half should expect would happen about half the stocks what you expect is going to the stocks what you expect is going to the stocks what you expect is going to happen to those businesses uh you know happen to those businesses uh you know happen to those businesses uh you know we're looking into the future and when we're looking into the future and when we're looking into the future and when we're looking into the future by we're looking into the future by we're looking into the future by definition that's you know fra with definition that's you know fra with definition that's you know fra with Peril so what what John Templeton Peril so what what John Templeton Peril so what what John Templeton defined as a mistake might be that the defined as a mistake might be that the
Questionerdefined as a mistake might be that the stock Sidelines the stock goes down thestock Sidelines the stock goes down thestock Sidelines the stock goes down the stock goes to zero the stock goes up 10%stock goes to zero the stock goes up 10%stock goes to zero the stock goes up 10% whether when you thought it would doublewhether when you thought it would doublewhether when you thought it would double all of these things are mistakes butall of these things are mistakes butall of these things are mistakes but because of the asymmetry of the way thebecause of the asymmetry of the way thebecause of the asymmetry of the way the investing business works with risk andinvesting business works with risk andinvesting business works with risk and reward you you know an investor could bereward you you know an investor could bereward you you know an investor could be extremely successful and do extremelyextremely successful and do extremelyextremely successful and do extremely well even if they were were right onewell even if they were were right onewell even if they were were right one out of 10 times if that one time whenout of 10 times if that one time whenout of 10 times if that one time when they were right was just a massive homethey were right was just a massive homethey were right was just a massive home run it would take care of all therun it would take care of all therun it would take care of all the mistakes and so I think that the way Imistakes and so I think that the way Imistakes and so I think that the way I look at it is that if I ran a if I run alook at it is that if I ran a if I run alook at it is that if I ran a if I run a 10 stock portfolio and one of those 1010 stock portfolio and one of those 1010 stock portfolio and one of those 10 stocks happens to be valant and I've hadstocks happens to be valant and I've hadstocks happens to be valant and I've had I've had several zeros in my illustriousI've had several zeros in my illustriousI've had several zeros in my illustrious careercareercareer and so the zeros are going to happen youand so the zeros are going to happen youand so the zeros are going to happen you know I mean I learned a few ways to tryknow I mean I learned a few ways to tryknow I mean I learned a few ways to try to reduce the zeros but the zeros willto reduce the zeros but the zeros willto reduce the zeros but the zeros will happen and so you know one stock goes to
Questionerhappen and so you know one stock goes to zero you're down 10% because of that it's not the end of the world and so even the investors I think who were long on Valiant I don't know if they had really put more than 10% of assets into Valiant uh I may be wrong on that but they had had a huge runup in the value of valant so like in in places like the seoa fund it became maybe 30% of the pie and so on so you know that's you're giving up gains which is a little bit different than putting 30% up so I I wouldn't sweat the fact that we are going to have mistakes I I don't think there's any way to avoid them even Buffett this year in his letter said that basically 12 decisions over 58 years created birkshire as we know it and he he would have made hundreds of decisions so even his hit rate of the great ones was like something like less than
Questionerthan 4% and so I I don't think we need to be too concerned I think what we need to do is focus on a circle of competence stay as close to the center as possible don't wander to the edges and definitely don't wander off beyond the edges and don't overly concentrate I think 10 stocks eight stocks is perfectly fine three stocks may not be so fine and and I think you'll be fine
Questioneryeah that we think that that makes a lot of sense and yeah the the idea of really knowing where you are and that asymmetry I guess really important talk about it with shorting as well right shorting is the Symmetry but the wrong way around yeah you can lose as much as you want but you only make 100% and M Mr chos just shut down his shop yeah yeah which is one of the short Sals of all time and it's like have to pack up yeah and he's he's actually extremely good he's an extremely good
Questionerextremely good he's an extremely good forensic accountant um many of the times the things that he pointed out in businesses he was right I mean sometimes it's hard to get the timing right and it can go against you and all kinds of other things so yeah no completely agree kind of we were thinking it's because we were talking with you know about shorting and also about concentration and I guess both Buffett Nick sleep so many people they emphasize the importance of management I guess when you're a concentrated portfolio really delegating your investment to management then they have to run it and we try to spend a lot of time thinking about that too so how do you also incorporate assessing assessing management the investment process are there maybe some key ways that you look to kind of invest kind of assess management teams key things that you look out for and maybe
Questionerthings that you look out for and maybe other maybe also if we invert are there key red flags as well
Questionerthey would say no if it's like this I would definitely not invest
Questioneryeah yeah I mean I think I think the simplest way to assess management is to look at the track record so do not focus on what they're telling you they're going to do go back and look at what they've done and go further back and look at what they said they would do and then what transpired after that so do they under promise and overd deliver or overpromise and underd deliver and so I think that if we have the luxury of looking at long history of a given management team or a given CEO it it will become relatively obvious where the individual stands and how they think and what's what's going on on that front the other the other thing to also be uh cognizant of is that we want to look at
Todd Combscognizant of is that we want to look at the business quality as well so we can have a situation where management is ex but the mo is mediocre and then that's not so good so ideally we would have a business where the mo is incredible and overlaid on top of the moat is great management but I think like I said if you if you go down the rabbit hole if you go a mile deep and all of that I think you're going to be able to separate the Beat from the shaft and I think you'll know exactly what's going on
Questioneryeah no I I completely agree I think maybe if we could touch on that a bit more the idea of the track record so maybe you have companies like let's say trans like where the management team is so important the business and acquiring but yet how would you get confidence in the management team like trste time when they just come public and you you do you can't really
Questionerpublic and you you do you can't really see that track long track right
Otheryeah I'm sorry what company did you mention trans di Nick Nick how's company yeah I've never spent a lot of time looking at trans time and I I remember I had a I I had a conversation or maybe I read somewhere about Chuck acri and Chuck ay had looked at France time and he took a pass on the pass on the business and the reason he took a pass in the business was that he said that the management team was incented with stock options and restricted stock and as soon as those became exercisable they would exercise and sell those positions so one of Chuck H's those positions so one of Chuck H's business models I mean I think his business models I mean I think his mental models was that he wanted mental models was that he wanted management with skin in the game where management with skin in the game where there was large ownership so he saw a there was large ownership so he saw a situation here where trans time had done situation here where trans time had done really well over the years the really well over the years the management team would have done even
Questionermanagement team would have done even better if they had held the stock but they didn't hold the stock right so his perspective was well I can't really be you know in ownership with these guys who are not co-invested with me right and in in reality the way it's worked out I think that in trans time's case it has worked in spite of that so what I'm saying is that's a good mental model for p to have used but sometimes it can lead you astray right and that's an example of where the business has continue to do well and I think part of that happened with trans time because trans time had private Equity Roots so basically there was one set of private Equity players which funded a team to go to do a bunch of Acquisitions then they took the company I think they took it public or they sold it to another private Equity player and and then after that they went
Questionerplayer and and then after that they went public I think there were like couple of different players that had come in and so the leaders at trans dime were kind of very used to the shareholders coming in making a bunch of money and then exiting and so they kind of adopted the same the same philosophy for good or bad and if you look at if you look at most companies where you know people are not holding stock and they're you know doing that sort of behavior it's usually a red flag so Chuck was correct in 99% of cases but you know you missed some but the good news about this business is in in baseball terms there's no call strikes and and so you miss one and you know I looked at trans dime briefly I didn't see that it was a p one and I moved on you know you know it wasn't even a p of two or three or four and I you know after that it just becomes too expensive
Questionerafter that it just becomes too expensive for me so there's lots of stuff I Let Go wrongly because optically it appears expensive when in reality it isn't and Amazon's a good example of that you know I always looked at it I always said where's the earnings and I couldn't see it but Nick could see it yeah yeah
Questionerexactly I guess those are the ones that get away but when you have yeah when you have these models and ideas some will get away but you get the others and absolutely yeah right as Buffett says I think exactly right so we'll kind of segre to the second part and kind of follow up a bit more on some of the previous conversations we had with the O as well and so ke gonna take most of that so thank you very much Manish all right hey so the first question we have in following up uh regarding our previous conversation is about racist
Questionerprevious conversation is about racist Logistics right so in our previous conversation you talked about looking for markets where people are rushing to exit such as in turkey and sort of that was the the racist example on the flip side how would you approach markets where all investors are rushing in for example Japan this year like I said in the previous section that you know this is the business where there's no call strikes so if if we don't find obvious value we don't need to do anything now
OtherJapan Japan may not be overvalued or overheated or any of those things it's been you know flatlined and declining for so long and Japanese companies still screen cheap they screen very cheap but I think there are a few challenges that come up in Japan the first is a demographic challenge you know a a declining population is a significant headwind so if I were looking at companies in Japan
Questionerif I were looking at companies in Japan I would want to look at businesses whose fortunes and revenues were tied to exports outside Japan versus the domestic Market I would just think that that's a better place and when Buffett bought the Japanese trading companies the five Japanese trading companies in 2020 uh a large portion of their footprint is outside Japan I mean they're Capital allocators all over the world and so in that particular case the demographic doesn't really affect you because you're basically allocating capital in the world and it's it's perfectly fine the second issue that's been a a bigger concern for Japanese companies is that the cash and resources that the company has at its disposal a lot of Japanese companies believe is for the benefit of the employees so lifetime employment is very important not laying off people is
Todd Combsvery important not laying off people is very important being able to ride outvery important being able to ride outvery important being able to ride out economic storms is very important andeconomic storms is very important andeconomic storms is very important and some of thosesome of thosesome of those principles will negatively affectprinciples will negatively affectprinciples will negatively affect shareholder returns so if a business isshareholder returns so if a business isshareholder returns so if a business is bloated I mean it's a it's a greatbloated I mean it's a it's a greatbloated I mean it's a it's a great business but it's carrying two times thebusiness but it's carrying two times thebusiness but it's carrying two times the number of employees that it should benumber of employees that it should benumber of employees that it should be carrying that helps the that hurts thecarrying that helps the that hurts thecarrying that helps the that hurts the providers of capital and I I thinkproviders of capital and I I thinkproviders of capital and I I think there's a lot of Japanese managementthere's a lot of Japanese managementthere's a lot of Japanese management teams who view their primaryteams who view their primaryteams who view their primary responsibility not towards theresponsibility not towards theresponsibility not towards the shareholders but towards the employeesshareholders but towards the employeesshareholders but towards the employees and that's perfectly fine but I thinkand that's perfectly fine but I thinkand that's perfectly fine but I think when you see that you have to handicapwhen you see that you have to handicapwhen you see that you have to handicap thatthatthat and and you have to say okay even withand and you have to say okay even withand and you have to say okay even with this headwind can I still do well so mythis headwind can I still do well so mythis headwind can I still do well so my take is that you know one doesn't needtake is that you know one doesn't needtake is that you know one doesn't need to follow flavor of the day and oneto follow flavor of the day and oneto follow flavor of the day and one doesn't need to follow the crowd in factdoesn't need to follow the crowd in factdoesn't need to follow the crowd in fact one should not follow the crowd justone should not follow the crowd justone should not follow the crowd just because Japan's gone up this year
Otherbecause Japan's gone up this year significantly the Japanese Market's gone up this year in itself doesn't tell me much I think it it boils down to individual businesses and the future of those businesses so I would look at businesses where the the revenues and growth was tied to things happening outside Japan and I would look at management teams which were focused on shareholder value as their primary driver and and then I would look at quality of business and all of the other things quality of management and see if there's meat on the bone and things that we can do on the other hand there are markets like turkey which are liking like shooting fish in a barrel after all the water has been run out you know so I like to walk over six inch bars rather than jump over 7 foot high bars yeah speaking a little bit more about kind of avoiding
Questionera little bit more about kind of avoiding the crowds in our last conversation you talked a lot about the process of cloning great ideas from uh other great colleagues in the investment space how do you square up kind of cloning and seeking inspiration from others versus the risk of kind of momentum trading piling into trades and kind of pursuing undifferentiated ideas we've seen examples like Ali BBA recently
Todd Combsyeah well like I said we we we will make mistakes and it's just part of the landscape I think that in general if you it it's it's perfectly fine to Source ideas from anywh where is perfectly fine to Source them from Smart investors we should also understand that those smart investors are also going to be wrong half the time so it's a wrong half the time is not just us it's going to be everyone and and and yeah we're not going to be batting 100% I mean Alibaba
Todd Combsgoing to be batting 100% I mean Alibaba is a good example of a business that had and probably still has very wide and deep modes but they had events take place that were hard to predict and then they kind of got on the wrong side of the Chinese government and you know we went from there so it's been a lot of unraveling that's taken place there which you know if you look at the business five years ago or something you wouldn't have been able to forecast that that would be the trajectory this business would take and that's fine it's the nature of investing that there are uncertainties and they not we're not going to always be able to get it right I think that's just is is one of those things where and and even when I when I look at a a business like racas for example you know I I had no idea and I still have no idea at what point the market will
Questioneridea at what point the market will recognize the real value of the business and ascribe that value to it it's the markets increased the value of the business a lot since we bought it but it still trades at a big big discount and I have no idea when that discount will close but you know we just kind of place our bets make some make some assumptions hopefully those are conservative assumptions and we move from there yeah definitely touching a bit more on the uncertainty and how how we kind of cope with it a lot of firms obviously either due to historical or structural reasons have have an investment committee uh that approves Investments and in our last kind of chat you spoke about the importance of one person making the final investment decision do you think that there's a way that one can sharpen the workings of an IC or some more
Questionerthe workings of an IC or some more bureaucratic structure like that or bureaucratic structure like that or bureaucratic structure like that or applying MERS principles of applying MERS principles of applying MERS principles of inversion what are the worst mistakes inversion what are the worst mistakes inversion what are the worst mistakes that any investment committee can make that any investment committee can make that any investment committee can make
Otherwell if you look at if you look at well if you look at if you look at well if you look at if you look at Berkshire Hathaway and Warren brought in these two Berkshire Hathaway and Warren brought in these two Berkshire Hathaway and Warren brought in these two managers Todd and Ted under him so he managers Todd and Ted under him so he managers Todd and Ted under him so he made it very clear to them that they made it very clear to them that they made it very clear to them that they never need to run any idea past him never need to run any idea past him never need to run any idea past him they've got full Independence to to they've got full Independence to to they've got full Independence to to invest in anything the only time he's invest in anything the only time he's invest in anything the only time he's he's I think asked them to run stuff by he's I think asked them to run stuff by he's I think asked them to run stuff by him is it just to make sure there's him is it just to make sure there's him is it just to make sure there's nothing else going on where Berkshire nothing else going on where Berkshire nothing else going on where Berkshire buying the whole company or something buying the whole company or something buying the whole company or something and you know they they might be tripping and you know they they might be tripping and you know they they might be tripping some laws or something but other than some laws or something but other than some laws or something but other than that basically they do their thing and that basically they do their thing and that basically they do their thing and in fact the degree of autonomy is so in fact the degree of autonomy is so in fact the degree of autonomy is so extreme that I think each of them last extreme that I think each of them last extreme that I think each of them last time knew they were managing about 15 time knew they were managing about 15 time knew they were managing about 15 billion each the autonomy is so extreme
Otherbillion each the autonomy is so extreme that Warren said that he did not care if they put it all into one idea so basically he said if if todot had decided that the entire 15 billion should go into one stock he would not have anything to say about that so that's the degree of autonomy gave gave them and I think that that's the correct approach I think that anything else that you do which basically takes away from the independence of the manager is going to do more harm than good in my opinion
Otherwhen when I was investing in Turkey if there was any kind of investment committee they would not ever get to consensus you know there' be a thousand reasons to say no and and so you never get fired or used to never get fired for buying IBM and and so a investment committee would go along the seven biggest stocks in the S&P 500 you know they would be
Questionerin the S&P 500 you know they would be completely flavor of the day because that's where they see comfort and that's where they see that they can't be fired and all of that so so I think that independence of thought is important but also Buffett and Munger have had a very uh difficult time finding good managers it is easier to find good Investments than investment managers and it is very difficult to identify someone who is likely in the future to be a great investment manager so you need threadmarks to help you get there but you also need them young enough so they have a Runway so there's a there's kind of a balance between the two where you need to see that there's enough history that the person has and enough runway in the future and and even then it's it's a judgment call because it could have been the environment or particular stocks or something else that
Questionerparticular stocks or something else that caused that and so identifying great investment managers is not an easy task
Questionerabsolutely at this point we have we have some questions about duction so I guess we can segue to those so we' love to hear a little bit more generally about kind of kind of the work you do when it was set up kind of why and after that I think we'll get into kind of how the investment and capital allocation decisions are made there
Todd Combssure yeah I mean I I think that the investing business is such that if you're even slightly above average basically you're going to end up quite wealthy well beyond what I think would bring you more happiness in terms of consumption so I I realized probably I would say close to 20 years ago maybe 18 years ago that we would end up with significantly more wealth than we could consume and and there was nothing we could do that
Otherand there was nothing we could do that would increase Happiness by increase in consumption so the wealth would be just extra and there's only two things you can do with extra wealth you can give it to your gene pool or you can recycle it back to society or some combination of the two and you know I would say that giving it to your gene pool if the if the amounts are really large will do more harm than good and but I think giving your kids or grandkids a little bit of a kind of jump start in life is a good idea and so what we had done is that we used to in the US we had these ugma accounts and gifting laws where we could give you know now we can give about 177,000 or so per person to a person each year taxfree and we did that for both our kids when they were very young and and I I invested that money in a quite a concentrated Manner and the thing about
Questionerconcentrated Manner and the thing about these ugma accounts is that they get full control when they are 18 which which is exactly what I wanted I didn't want to actually be having any controls of the business after the controls of the money after they were adults and because of because these funds were concentrated it became a good size fund you know single digit Millions but a few million and both my daughters when they turned 18 they basically gave me power of attorney to keep managing those funds and and and subsequently they've utilized some of the funds and I think they've been utilized good way I think they've they've used it to start a business they've used it to fund higher ed and and different things so it's been it's been wonderful it's exactly significantly exceeded my expectations so that took care of you know basically the genan pool and you
Otherknow basically the genan pool and youknow basically the genan pool and you know they know that there's nothing elseknow they know that there's nothing elseknow they know that there's nothing else coming and they they actually don't wantcoming and they they actually don't wantcoming and they they actually don't want anything else so then you know when youanything else so then you know when youanything else so then you know when you recycle back torecycle back torecycle back to society I wanted I wantedsociety I wanted I wantedsociety I wanted I wanted thatthatthat the the social return on investedthe the social return on investedthe the social return on invested Capital should be really high so thatCapital should be really high so thatCapital should be really high so that the benefit to society is very high andthe benefit to society is very high andthe benefit to society is very high and unfortunately most charitableunfortunately most charitableunfortunately most charitable organizations or NGS Etc don't reallyorganizations or NGS Etc don't reallyorganizations or NGS Etc don't really think in that way you know someone hasthink in that way you know someone hasthink in that way you know someone has some Pet Project or what whatever theysome Pet Project or what whatever theysome Pet Project or what whatever they like and they don't really look at okaylike and they don't really look at okaylike and they don't really look at okay what is the input and output and whatwhat is the input and output and whatwhat is the input and output and what happens here and sometimes we run intohappens here and sometimes we run intohappens here and sometimes we run into organizations which have you know largeorganizations which have you know largeorganizations which have you know large fundraisers and they'll spend 80% of thefundraisers and they'll spend 80% of thefundraisers and they'll spend 80% of the money raised in raising funds you knowmoney raised in raising funds you knowmoney raised in raising funds you know so if I gave a dollar 80 cents justso if I gave a dollar 80 cents justso if I gave a dollar 80 cents just disappears in the act of raising thedisappears in the act of raising thedisappears in the act of raising the funds which is terrible and uh doesn'tfunds which is terrible and uh doesn'tfunds which is terrible and uh doesn't really go to the Cs and so I wantedreally go to the Cs and so I wanted
Otherreally go to the Cs and so I wanted to I wanted to to find an organization Ito I wanted to to find an organization Ito I wanted to to find an organization I couldcouldcould fund that was just great at Socialfund that was just great at Socialfund that was just great at Social return invested capital and when we werereturn invested capital and when we werereturn invested capital and when we were setting up the dakna foundation in 2005setting up the dakna foundation in 2005setting up the dakna foundation in 2005 200 I looked high and low and I was very200 I looked high and low and I was very200 I looked high and low and I was very disappointed I really couldn't find andisappointed I really couldn't find andisappointed I really couldn't find an organization that really thought aboutorganization that really thought aboutorganization that really thought about these things in the right Manner and uhthese things in the right Manner and uhthese things in the right Manner and uh then I ran this guy in Bihar in Indiathen I ran this guy in Bihar in Indiathen I ran this guy in Bihar in India who ran super 30 which is basicallywho ran super 30 which is basicallywho ran super 30 which is basically taking 30 very poor kids and trainingtaking 30 very poor kids and trainingtaking 30 very poor kids and training them for a year and helping helping themthem for a year and helping helping themthem for a year and helping helping them get into IIT the return on that was offget into IIT the return on that was offget into IIT the return on that was off the charts and I wanted to fund him youthe charts and I wanted to fund him youthe charts and I wanted to fund him you know I said hey Anam this is reallyknow I said hey Anam this is reallyknow I said hey Anam this is really great let's take 30 to 300 and I'llgreat let's take 30 to 300 and I'llgreat let's take 30 to 300 and I'll write you a check I'm not going to askwrite you a check I'm not going to askwrite you a check I'm not going to ask you anything you have full autonomy doyou anything you have full autonomy doyou anything you have full autonomy do whatever you want and he said I don'twhatever you want and he said I don'twhatever you want and he said I don't want any outside money and I don't wantwant any outside money and I don't wantwant any outside money and I don't want to scale and I want to just keep doingto scale and I want to just keep doing
Questionerto scale and I want to just keep doing what I'm doing and I tried very hard to convince him I went and met him Etc but he wouldn't budge so since I'm the Shameless cloner I asked him if he had any objections that if I cloned him and he said no he he thinks that's a great idea he would try to support us and anything he could help us with and so I said okay this model is really good I don't really want to do it but this guy won't do it I don't have anyone else who can do it so I'll give it a shot and my expectation was that we would fall flat and fail you know I'm I'm a guy who hangs out in the in shorts at that time in California now in Austin and this was going to be a you know Endeavor you know looking at rural India and all of that but what ended up happening is that first we were cloning a great model secondly I lucked out big time and some
Warrensecondly I lucked out big time and some really great people showed up it really great people showed up it really great people showed up it literally showed up at my doorstep and literally showed up at my doorstep and literally showed up at my doorstep and we ended up with great leadership and we ended up with great leadership and we ended up with great leadership and and I was happy to leave them alone and and I was happy to leave them alone and and I was happy to leave them alone and they would they would all the different they would they would all the different they would they would all the different leaders we've had at daksh and they've leaders we've had at daksh and they've leaders we've had at daksh and they've been very good they keep bringing up been very good they keep bringing up been very good they keep bringing up different tangents and uh initiatives different tangents and uh initiatives different tangents and uh initiatives and things that we could do and my job and things that we could do and my job and things that we could do and my job is always to just say no you know so is always to just say no you know so is always to just say no you know so that's the biggest value I added is that that's the biggest value I added is that that's the biggest value I added is that whatever they'd come up with I just say whatever they'd come up with I just say whatever they'd come up with I just say i' look at it and say okay how does this i' look at it and say okay how does this i' look at it and say okay how does this compare to our core model and it doesn't compare to our core model and it doesn't compare to our core model and it doesn't compare that well and so it's taking a compare that well and so it's taking a compare that well and so it's taking a pass and and so the focus has helped us pass and and so the focus has helped us pass and and so the focus has helped us a lot and it's worked out really well a lot and it's worked out really well a lot and it's worked out really well and I think it's been been great yeah so and I think it's been been great yeah so and I think it's been been great yeah so one of the initiatives we've recently one of the initiatives we've recently one of the initiatives we've recently kind of set up is kind of our first live kind of set up is kind of our first live kind of set up is kind of our first live fund at the Oxford Alpha fund so fund at the Oxford Alpha fund so
Questionerfund at the Oxford Alpha fund so progressing from a society to kind of actually managing money and on the back end we're definitely interested in kind of allocating cash returns to charitable causes so as to to not become asset accumulators um and so one of the things we were curious about with respect to duction out was how do you assess the social return on invested Capital um like what kind of data points are you looking at and how are you uh kind of teasing out Downstream effects of the impact you have to assess these things
Otheryeah I mean I think I think in dak's case it was extremely easy to see that so when I looked at the super 30 model you know he was taking 30 kids in for for a year a lot of these kids came from really the absolute bottom of society in the sense that the income the household income was like $40 a month or less or
Otherincome was like $40 a month or less or $20 a month was really low and Anand$20 a month was really low and Anand$20 a month was really low and Anand provided free room and board to them forprovided free room and board to them forprovided free room and board to them for a year his mother used to cook for thema year his mother used to cook for thema year his mother used to cook for them and and so these 30 kids basically whenand and so these 30 kids basically whenand and so these 30 kids basically when I looked at the economics of what AnandI looked at the economics of what AnandI looked at the economics of what Anand was doing it was costing him about $800was doing it was costing him about $800was doing it was costing him about $800 per kid for the one year of prep youper kid for the one year of prep youper kid for the one year of prep you know both the room and board andknow both the room and board andknow both the room and board and coaching andcoaching andcoaching and everything he was himself taking theeverything he was himself taking theeverything he was himself taking the math classes and he had hired facultymath classes and he had hired facultymath classes and he had hired faculty for physics and chemistry so it was $800for physics and chemistry so it was $800for physics and chemistry so it was $800 a year when when these kids got into Ia year when when these kids got into Ia year when when these kids got into I and he had a 90 to 100% success rate soand he had a 90 to 100% success rate soand he had a 90 to 100% success rate so really high success rate when these kidsreally high success rate when these kidsreally high success rate when these kids got to IIT the IIT so heavily subsidizedgot to IIT the IIT so heavily subsidizedgot to IIT the IIT so heavily subsidized so if there was no government subsidy anso if there was no government subsidy anso if there was no government subsidy an IIT education would cost around $60,000IIT education would cost around $60,000IIT education would cost around $60,000 over four years 60 or $70,000 over fourover four years 60 or $70,000 over fourover four years 60 or $70,000 over four years maybe 15 20,000 a year because theyears maybe 15 20,000 a year because theyears maybe 15 20,000 a year because the government subsidy is so high the thegovernment subsidy is so high the thegovernment subsidy is so high the the cost of attending the iits is basically
Othercost of attending the iits is basically about I think it's about what about four or five lakhs or what 20 LH Max it's about maybe less than about $10,000 uh a year I mean $10,000 in all maybe about more like $2 or $3,000 um a year because the government subsidy and even that 234,000 that is being paid by the student every IIT has a State Bank of India Branch inside the IIT and the State Bank of India is a state-owned bank that has a mandate to give student loans so so if you basically get admitted to IIT you can just walk into the state bank and they'll just give you a loan for the entire amount that you're on the hook for and there are many other banks that will give loans to I and there many scholarships and grants and everything else that's available so at Dak we've we've sent thousands of kids to IIT we've never had to really step in
Otherto IIT we've never had to really step in to help them with tuition or anything Ito help them with tuition or anything Ito help them with tuition or anything I think it's the ecosystem is very wellthink it's the ecosystem is very wellthink it's the ecosystem is very well develop so in effect the cost ofdevelop so in effect the cost ofdevelop so in effect the cost of attending an IIT is basically free nowattending an IIT is basically free nowattending an IIT is basically free now when you graduate the size of thewhen you graduate the size of thewhen you graduate the size of the student loan is so low because of thisstudent loan is so low because of thisstudent loan is so low because of this heavy subsidy that when you startheavy subsidy that when you startheavy subsidy that when you start working the savings rate is pretty highworking the savings rate is pretty highworking the savings rate is pretty high and I think in probably like two threeand I think in probably like two threeand I think in probably like two three four years the kids can easily pay offfour years the kids can easily pay offfour years the kids can easily pay off all their loans and have a lot ofall their loans and have a lot ofall their loans and have a lot of savings beyond that in fact I think theysavings beyond that in fact I think theysavings beyond that in fact I think they could in many cases pay off their loanscould in many cases pay off their loanscould in many cases pay off their loans in a year or two completely because ofin a year or two completely because ofin a year or two completely because of the huge income that they're gettingthe huge income that they're gettingthe huge income that they're getting relative to the loans so because thisrelative to the loans so because thisrelative to the loans so because this this huge government subsidy because thethis huge government subsidy because thethis huge government subsidy because the iats get you connected to the globaliats get you connected to the globaliats get you connected to the global economy and because multinationals areeconomy and because multinationals areeconomy and because multinationals are coming to hire from the I and all ofcoming to hire from the I and all ofcoming to hire from the I and all of that the input output ratio of the $800that the input output ratio of the $800that the input output ratio of the $800 so basically the only thing that's
Otherso basically the only thing that's really going out of pocket is the $800 the rest is all funded you you spend $800,000 on someone and they come out the other end and they have a job in India which is paying you know $155,000 a year which would be equivalent to about 70 80,000 elsewhere and and such it's just a no-brainer and now at daksh we don't have the cost equation that Anand had it costs us about $3,000 a person not 800 because you know we have a kitchen staff and not my mom cooking my mom's passed away and and but so our costs are higher but it's industrial scale you know we're we're graduating a thousand kids a year versus three 30 kids and uh so the input output ratio of the $3,000 going in to what's happening on the other end we we have kids who are now you know maybe eight or nine years out of school they're working at Google and so on and their
Otherat Google and so on and their compensation over a million dollars a year one of our alarms has got like a team of 20 Engineers under him and is moving very fast and so we've had several of them who get got funded by top top end VCS they dropped out of IIT and they got funded and so on so I think that the the bell curve on the output coming out from the kids that we've taken in is just truly off the chart so it's it was a easy to see that this model is great and it's when we compare it to other models because of that huge government subsidy just hard to compare it yeah
Questionerreally interesting definitely a no-brainer can you give us some examples of like extensions or like other projects that people on staff have come to you with that you said no to because they didn't beat that hurdle
Otherwell we we will we will we will need to find other
Otherwill we will we will need to find other other initiatives in the next few yearsother initiatives in the next few yearsother initiatives in the next few years so this particular model that we areso this particular model that we areso this particular model that we are running will run out of IIT seats andrunning will run out of IIT seats andrunning will run out of IIT seats and will run out of medical seats basicallywill run out of medical seats basicallywill run out of medical seats basically currently dakna is spending about $3currently dakna is spending about $3currently dakna is spending about $3 million a year and we're pushing puttingmillion a year and we're pushing puttingmillion a year and we're pushing putting out about a thousand kids a year when weout about a thousand kids a year when weout about a thousand kids a year when we when we are spending about s or8 millionwhen we are spending about s or8 millionwhen we are spending about s or8 million doar a year and maybe graduating aboutdoar a year and maybe graduating aboutdoar a year and maybe graduating about 3,000 kids a year so the IIT take a3,000 kids a year so the IIT take a3,000 kids a year so the IIT take a total of 16,000 kids a year okay we aretotal of 16,000 kids a year okay we aretotal of 16,000 kids a year okay we are already taking a significant number of Ialready taking a significant number of Ialready taking a significant number of I seats I don't think DNA will ever beseats I don't think DNA will ever beseats I don't think DNA will ever be able to really take more than 10% orable to really take more than 10% orable to really take more than 10% or 12% of the total IIT seats available12% of the total IIT seats available12% of the total IIT seats available it's a very competitive place there's ait's a very competitive place there's ait's a very competitive place there's a lot of rich people that in some caseslot of rich people that in some caseslot of rich people that in some cases the coaching starts six years before thethe coaching starts six years before thethe coaching starts six years before the kid finishes High School in sixth gradekid finishes High School in sixth gradekid finishes High School in sixth grade for that IIT coaching whereas we arefor that IIT coaching whereas we arefor that IIT coaching whereas we are doing two years or one year so it's verydoing two years or one year so it's very
Otherdoing two years or one year so it's very comparative so I don't think we can oncecomparative so I don't think we can oncecomparative so I don't think we can once we are processing about 3,000 kids awe are processing about 3,000 kids awe are processing about 3,000 kids a year through our program we will max outyear through our program we will max outyear through our program we will max out and that's a high class problem and soand that's a high class problem and soand that's a high class problem and so once we hit that 7 to8 million we'llonce we hit that 7 to8 million we'llonce we hit that 7 to8 million we'll have to look at Plan B what do we do forhave to look at Plan B what do we do forhave to look at Plan B what do we do for Plan B and I've experimented with a fewPlan B and I've experimented with a fewPlan B and I've experimented with a few things which so far have not panned outthings which so far have not panned outthings which so far have not panned out we've looked at going further so India'swe've looked at going further so India'swe've looked at going further so India's public education system for elementarypublic education system for elementarypublic education system for elementary school and middle school and high schoolschool and middle school and high schoolschool and middle school and high school and so on is quite peretic the fundingand so on is quite peretic the fundingand so on is quite peretic the funding levels are low and the quality is lowlevels are low and the quality is lowlevels are low and the quality is low we've looked at going into some of thesewe've looked at going into some of thesewe've looked at going into some of these schools in some kind of a magnet type ofschools in some kind of a magnet type ofschools in some kind of a magnet type of situation where we do something similarsituation where we do something similarsituation where we do something similar to what we're doing but we found itto what we're doing but we found itto what we're doing but we found it difficult to really make those equationsdifficult to really make those equationsdifficult to really make those equations work work the the model the one modelwork work the the model the one modelwork work the the model the one model that looks very appealing to me isthat looks very appealing to me isthat looks very appealing to me is there's another there's another charitythere's another there's another charity
Otherthere's another there's another charity and if I I don't know whether theyand if I I don't know whether theyand if I I don't know whether they existed when dakna came about but if Iexisted when dakna came about but if Iexisted when dakna came about but if I knew about them at that time I wouldknew about them at that time I wouldknew about them at that time I would have just written them a check and beenhave just written them a check and beenhave just written them a check and been done with it there's another nonprofitdone with it there's another nonprofitdone with it there's another nonprofit called Akay Patra some of you might havecalled Akay Patra some of you might havecalled Akay Patra some of you might have heard of it and what Akay Patra does isheard of it and what Akay Patra does isheard of it and what Akay Patra does is it provides hot midday meals for kids init provides hot midday meals for kids init provides hot midday meals for kids in government School in India so the Indiangovernment School in India so the Indiangovernment School in India so the Indian government many years back basicallygovernment many years back basicallygovernment many years back basically mandated that these government schoolsmandated that these government schoolsmandated that these government schools had to provide a hot midday meal and thehad to provide a hot midday meal and thehad to provide a hot midday meal and the reason they did that was that they feltreason they did that was that they feltreason they did that was that they felt that if the ultra poor families knewthat if the ultra poor families knewthat if the ultra poor families knew that their kids would get one good mealthat their kids would get one good mealthat their kids would get one good meal at a school they would send their kidsat a school they would send their kidsat a school they would send their kids to school and so it would tackle theto school and so it would tackle theto school and so it would tackle the huge illiteracy problem in India becausehuge illiteracy problem in India becausehuge illiteracy problem in India because of the carrot of the midday meal so theof the carrot of the midday meal so theof the carrot of the midday meal so the government set up this whole midday mealgovernment set up this whole midday mealgovernment set up this whole midday meal program which was a really good program
Questionerprogram which was a really good program and so at a given School the government will tell the school look we'll we'll pay you 50 cents or 75 cents per kid and you you give out contracts to providers who can provide that midday meal so a bunch of kind of for-profit companies came about and what would happen is that there was a lot of corruption so they would bribe the school officials and then the food would be terrible and then you know people are skimming off the top what Akra did is they came in and said and they're nonprofit they said you can give us the 50 cents that the government is giving you we're going to put another 50 cents from our side so instead of trying to make money on that 50 cents like you know 20 cents or 30 cents of that going disappearing into all these middlemen they said that the meal is actually going to be a $1 meal and it's a very
Othergoing to be a $1 meal and it's a very high quality meal and the second thing they did was they set up these industrial scale kitchens so these very large kitchens which are servicing 50 schools and they set up a network of these delivery Vans and all of that so they did it on a very large industrial scale and even at the large industrial scale they spent much more than what they were getting paid so their expenditures per kid for the quality of meal provided if any for-profit company was doing that it might be $2 or $3 per per meal and we went and looked at AKA patra's kitchens and we actually took a bunch of cloning ideas from them and incorporate them in our kitchens because they were so good you know that they had they had come up with very efficient ways to steam rice and different industrial scale things they had done and so in
Otherscale things they had done and so in that particular case we don't have thisthat particular case we don't have thisthat particular case we don't have this in you know the dakna modelin you know the dakna modelin you know the dakna model measures amount we spend versus incomemeasures amount we spend versus incomemeasures amount we spend versus income of the kids that are coming out right inof the kids that are coming out right inof the kids that are coming out right in the aay Patra model what is very obviousthe aay Patra model what is very obviousthe aay Patra model what is very obvious to usto usto us is that the kids are getting a very veryis that the kids are getting a very veryis that the kids are getting a very very nutritious meal and we also know thatnutritious meal and we also know thatnutritious meal and we also know that the literacy rates have climbed quitethe literacy rates have climbed quitethe literacy rates have climbed quite significantly deep in rural India in thesignificantly deep in rural India in thesignificantly deep in rural India in the Hinterlands when these kids used to beHinterlands when these kids used to beHinterlands when these kids used to be child labor you know working in thechild labor you know working in thechild labor you know working in the fields and such so to me at the back offields and such so to me at the back offields and such so to me at the back of my head I always have the aay Patramy head I always have the aay Patramy head I always have the aay Patra model so once we hit 7 million if wemodel so once we hit 7 million if wemodel so once we hit 7 million if we don't come up with a better model thandon't come up with a better model thandon't come up with a better model than Akra Dak we'll go to aay Patra now IAkra Dak we'll go to aay Patra now IAkra Dak we'll go to aay Patra now I think the problem they may be having isthink the problem they may be having isthink the problem they may be having is they may be hitting upper limits too sothey may be hitting upper limits too sothey may be hitting upper limits too so they have grown a lot they've expandedthey have grown a lot they've expandedthey have grown a lot they've expanded in many different parts of India I justin many different parts of India I justin many different parts of India I just love I've met their management teamslove I've met their management teamslove I've met their management teams I've met the people who support them
OtherI've met the people who support them just it's just a great group it's the just it's just a great group it's the just it's just a great group it's the same DNA that du has they think the same same DNA that du has they think the same same DNA that du has they think the same way they think about social return way they think about social return way they think about social return invested Capital it's such a breast of invested Capital it's such a breast of invested Capital it's such a breast of fresh air but we are the only two fresh air but we are the only two fresh air but we are the only two players who think like this and that's players who think like this and that's players who think like this and that's it there's just the two of us so that's it there's just the two of us so that's it there's just the two of us so that's where we are where we are where we are at monish was just like exceptional to at monish was just like exceptional to at monish was just like exceptional to hear like I'm really we really just so hear like I'm really we really just so hear like I'm really we really just so inspired by know the thinking that goes inspired by know the thinking that goes inspired by know the thinking that goes into the chargeable n that you do and into the chargeable n that you do and into the chargeable n that you do and it's just so Dynamic and I think that's it's just so Dynamic and I think that's it's just so Dynamic and I think that's what really makes this job worth doing what really makes this job worth doing what really makes this job worth doing right you gain capital and you can give right you gain capital and you can give right you gain capital and you can give it back to others and really share it it back to others and really share it it back to others and really share it with others and Liv other people yeah I with others and Liv other people yeah I with others and Liv other people yeah I had I had expected I had expected with had I had expected I had expected with had I had expected I had expected with that we would fall flat on our face I that we would fall flat on our face I that we would fall flat on our face I expected 10 years 15 years of just expected 10 years 15 years of just expected 10 years 15 years of just falling flat paying the tution bill and falling flat paying the tution bill and falling flat paying the tution bill and then learning how we can do this we got
Otherthen learning how we can do this we got Traction in a few weeks and and really I think now the best days of the year have been the days I spent with the DNA Scholars visiting their homes and all of that the the impact has blown me away and I think the main reason has been that these the team that has come together is way more passionate about Daka than I am I mean they they own it so much more than I do and so they think it's their baby and it's worked out really 100x better than I ever thought it would so it's been awesome to watch
Othercompletely agree and I just hope it keeps compounding and compounding and really generating more and more like great results of these kids and I mean thank you this has been such a dynamic discussion we've learned so much and like it's always great to speak speak with you and I guess in closing is there
Questionerwith you and I guess in closing is there maybe let's say one piece of advice you would give to students like to people you know 20 30 years younger but not just looking for career and investing but you've seen so much in life through both DNA through the P fund through your career and if there's one thing you could leave them with maybe something to your 22 year old self
Ted Weschleryeah yeah I mean I would say that one of the things that happens with students and especially when they're looking at you know careers and companies to join Etc a lot of them focus on the big Brands you know and what would what would make people envious you know and and actually that's a wrong model I think that the Buffett model is a much better model you focus on going to work for people you like admire and Trust the second is try as early as possible in life to find what you're passionate about if you are so
Otheryou're passionate about if you are so lucky as to you know I found investing when I was an old man of 30 okay if you are so lucky to know what you are really passionate about when you're at Oxford or before you graduate or even right after you graduate that's a huge positive and once you figure that out go all in go a inch wide and a mile deep into your passion and if you do that you will just blow the doors off okay that's I that's amazing I think that's really the best note that we can end this short chat and like talk on like an inch wide and a m and that's really like where you want to be right
Questionerwell thank you so much for your time Manish this was like amazing like just for secure and B's been a big fan of your work and having me the chance to just talk to you and to to hear what you you have to share it's been really incredible thank you very much yeah I
Otherenjoyed the conversation a lot thank you
Questioneryeah thank you man and we'll definitely speak soon and have a great day ahead
Otheryeah and speak soon all right bye thank youbyebye