OtherSusan Buffett was a friend of this program and a friend of mine.
OtherShe died of a stroke on July 29, 2004 while vacationing with her husbandat the ranch of their friend Herbert Allen in Cody, Wyoming.
OtherShe was 72 years old.
OtherI got to know her through my friendship with Warren.
OtherHe is, as many of you know, one of the world's greatest investorsand, as a result, one of the world's richest menand, of those who know him, one of the funniest and most interesting people anywhere.
OtherSusie had the same spirit.
OtherPlus, she could sing.
OtherIn May of this year, almost three months before her death,she sat down with me for her only television interview in her life.
OtherIt was to be part of a larger profile I'm making about Warren.
OtherThis interview was to be about Warren, but it is every bit as much about Susie.
OtherWatch it and you will see why he said to me,I couldn't have done this without her.
OtherShe and Warren were separated and lived in different cities,but they were magical when together and talked on the phone constantly.
OtherHe was at her side during her struggle with cancer and also at her death.
OtherSusan Buffett was a director of Berkshire Hathaway, the second largest stockholder.
OtherShe was president of the Buffett Foundation,and she was a wonderful mother for her three children, Howard, Peter, and Susie.
OtherI am enormously proud that Susie joined me for this conversation.
OtherI hope it shows why her life was so specialand her death such a profound loss for Warren and her children.
OtherIt is our tribute to her life and her spirit.
OtherYou grew up in Omaha.
QuestionerYes.
QuestionerSusie Thompson.
OtherRight.
OtherFather was...He was a psychology professor at the university and dean there,and he also preached out in a little country church on Sunday,way out in the country, little white church in the Vale type thing,and we had to walk through a whole mountain of lilies of the valleys to get to the outhouse,and all the people there were farmers.
QuestionerI loved it.
OtherBut the Buffett family knew the Thompson family.
QuestionerOh, my, yes.
OtherThey were like this.
OtherThe parents, the parents.
OtherThe children didn't know each other because Warren and his sisters lived in Washington from the time he was 13.
QuestionerHis father was a congressman.
OtherRight.
OtherSo when you first met him...Ha!I first met him.
QuestionerI was going to be his youngest sister's roommate at Northwestern,so I walked into their house, and he was sitting in this chair in the living room,and he made some sarcastic quip.
QuestionerI hadn't even met him.
QuestionerSo I made one back.
QuestionerI thought, who is this jerk?
OtherAnd that's how we met, yes.Here is the story.He chased you, and you were dating other people.He would come over to the house.Right.He sat with your father.Yeah.And you were going off on a date.Right.My dad fell in love with him.Listen, Warren is smarter than you even know.My dad had a mandolin up in the attic.Warren said, Doc, get out your mandolin, and I'll play with you with my ukulele.So they played together, and my father fell in love with Warren,and he kept saying to me, you don't understand this boy.He has a heart of gold.No pun intended.And that's what went on for quite a while.But doesn't Warren always get what he wants?So you finally gave up on the other guy.Oh, yeah.And started dating him.Yeah.And the one thing is, he makes you laugh all the time.He's so fun.And he also, at that time, he took me dancing a lot.Warren could dance.He could dance, and we had a lot of fun going dancing.I think he probably can still dance, but I wouldn't know.And so we had fun dancing, which never happened after we got married,which is a sad tale that many wives probably have.Because men are married to their work, not their wives.Yeah, they think I've got her now.I don't have to go dancing anymore.According to him, according to him to me, he would not have made it without you.You gave him something.Well, I feel really good about that, Charlie,because whoever you are in this life,I don't want to think you've wasted a lot of your energy and love and time on something useless.Warren is phenomenal.And I felt that the best thing I could give him was unconditional love, and I have.And he says, you're like a little watering can, you know, and I'm a flower.And how could you not feel good about that?He made you feel needed.Very much so.And you knew he loved you.Oh, I don't know that anyone's ever been more loved.But yeah, and you know, I must have, maybe I should have been a social worker,because just in the sense that it fits me.It fits me to be needed and to know that what I have to give is the right thing.And if you have two people, we just have a lot of love and respect for each other, and that's never changed.You always knew you'd be successful.Well, I didn't care about that.Didn't care?No, I mean, he would go around saying, I'm going to be the richest man.I thought, oh, okay.He would tell you, I'm going to be the richest man in the world.In the world.And I think, well, it's like somebody says I play music and I'm going to be Mozart.
OtherI don't know.
OtherHow does anyone know?
OtherHow does anyone know?
OtherSo that was okay.
OtherI don't really care about that.
OtherI always thought I'd marry a minister or a doctor or somebody out doing some valuable service to human beings.And the fact that I married somebody who makes just piles of money is really the antithesis of what I ever thought.But I know what he is.And he is.There's no finer human being than who he is.So I overlooked the money.But why does he say, look, you've got to talk to Susie.This would not have been possible without her.Well, isn't it interesting that he does that all the time with me?It's very flattering.I think I know what he means.When I knew him in the beginning, he was sort of a genius.I think sometimes geniuses are by default lonely and isolated.He said that.And I think that he was.And he was not really well adjusted.He was just this funny, I mean humorous guy who maybe had a moat around him because he was afraid and he didn't know anyone that he wanted to let in.And to this day, Charlie, I mean, I don't know.Well, nobody knows him like I do and probably any wife would say that.
QuestionerWhy do you think he didn't let people in?
OtherThat's a good question.I think he was just afraid.He was afraid to trust people.And he's so cerebral, you see.He's so cerebral.My dad, the psychologist, said to me,Now you have to understand about him.You're not going to have discussions with him like you would most normal people.He's not going to talk about other people or small things.There will be a lot of things he won't talk about because he's thinking big thoughts up here.So when he's ready to talk about those, then he'll have a conversation.Ask these kids.I mean, Susie, our daughter who's here, said to me,Mom, I knew when I talked to Daddy I had to hurry up because pretty soon I'd lose him.Meaning he can only stay down here mentally for so long and then something goes on up here.He's thinking big thoughts.Yeah, he is.
QuestionerHow has he changed with all this success, all this money, all this fame, all these books written about him?And how has he stayed the same?
OtherI think he has changed as little as anyone possibly could under the circumstances.There's nothing about him that is pompous?Oh, no. Oh, my heavens, no.I'm lucky if I get him to comb his hair and I can whisk him off, you know.No, not at all.I think a lot of it, to me the crux of it is that it wasn't the money itself.You can see that in the way he lives.
OtherI mean, he doesn't buy huge paintings or build big houses or anything like that. It's all mental with him. And the money is his scorecard. And he used to say to me, what I love about this is I started out, well, I think he read Moody's a hundred times the first year we were born. Security analysis he certainly did. And my dad always had his head in the books so I was used to that. I was trained to be married to one. But I think that it isn't because the money isn't the thing. As I say, it's a scorecard. So he doesn't need to change anything. He just wants, he said, everybody can read what I read. Everybody, it's a level playing field. And he loves that because he's competitive. And he's sitting there all by himself in his office reading these things that everybody else can read. But he loves the idea that he's going to win. But he's never wanted to spend a lot of money. No. To buy a lot of things. No. Simply because what I said, it's a scorecard. How hard a worker is he? His brain is going all the time. But an unusual thing about him is he can lie down and take a nap and go to sleep. Or he sleeps very well at night. He can turn it off. Which I think many hyper, high-powered people probably can't do. It is said, though, that he worked so hard. And you had raised the kids. At a time, you sort of felt like, what's there for me to do? Oh, no. When the children were growing up, I was very involved in civil rights completely. You've always had a- I was immersed in it. And I think that's what made going a Democrat. I take the credit for that. Because both our parents were Republicans. And we are not. He would go with me to hear speakers. Jesse Jackson and the man who wrote Black Like Me and Lewis. He would go with me. Oh, Al Loewenstein. Loved him. Loved him. So without knowing it, step by step, I was infiltrating. And he's very much- I find this a profound thing. I was talking to him one day about some racial issue. And he looked at me. And this, Charlie, would have been 40 years ago. And he said to me, wait till women discover they're the slaves of the world. Now, how many men were cognizant of that and even women then? I was so impressed by that. And he's very, very pro-women. He's had good relationships with women. Oh, yeah. Kay Graham. Yeah. He invested in the Washington Post. But she leaned on him. Oh, yeah. And introduced him to Washington. Oh, yeah. Kay was wonderful. And Carol Loomis. Carol Loomis who writes for Fortune magazine.
QuestionerThey talk all the time and exchange thoughts.And he has a lot of women friends.Because he likes women.He likes women.Yeah.He does.Well, why wouldn't he?Yeah.And you love the fact that he liked women.Oh, yeah.My dad always said that women were the superior gender.And if women ruled the world, it would be a much better place.So I come from a father who loved women.And Warren feels that women all over the world get shortchanged.That's why he's so pro-choice.Anything that helps women to be part of the level playing field.But why did you move away from Omaha?
OtherMe?
QuestionerYeah.
OtherBecause.I'll tell you.I am a person who likes a private life.That's why I'm here on your program, Charlie.I said to Warren, I don't like to.You said to Warren what?I don't like to talk about.I just want to have my own life.I don't need to talk to somebody.So what did he say?Yeah, but Charlie will be good to you.And you like Charlie.So here I am.I don't know.But Omaha.You see, I didn't realize this at the time.Well, I'll tell you the real thing of how it happened.I have been involved in the death and dying process of a lot of people, including relatives, but also friends with AIDS.It seems to be my fit.I don't know.I never would have guessed.But I'm comfortable with the transition that people are making, the process, and those moments.I'm very comfortable.And I think the person I'm with understands that.And so I had done an awful lot of that.My sister-in-law is a little girl.It's just a lot of people.And I thought, you know, I would like to have a place where I could have a room of my own.It would be nice.Because my problem, Charlie, is that I don't have superficial relationships.I have these gang-blasted relationships with people that are like, boing, and then it never runs.So I thought, if I went to – I would have come to New York, but I have too many friends here that I dearly love.So I went to San Francisco.It's beautiful.I'm in a city, but I'm close to nature.I have three friends there from Omaha who know.They never invite me to their dinner parties.They know I don't want to come.But we sit and have tea somewhere or something.It's perfect.And the first time Warren came out there – and I'm only there about 20% of the time –let's say that I'm a – what is it I say I am?I move around all the time.But the minute – we took a walk and he looked around, and he doesn't – he's not very visual.He's not very visual.
OtherHe's not visual at all.Meaning he doesn't see the beauty or the –He doesn't see the beauty.He's not overwhelmed by the outside because he's internal.But that has its pluses.I could buy a horrible-looking rug and he'd have his feet on it for three years and never know.So I realized there was a plus to that.But he was looking around and he said,This really is – this is your city, you should know.He could see because I am so drawn to color and light and form and naturethat he thought it was a good place for me.Because you see, physical proximity to Warren doesn't always mean that he's there with you.I mean, you can – there hasn't been any change in anything because –which he had to – it took him a while to figure it out, but he figured it out.I said, I'm not leaving you because I'll be wherever you want me when you want me.But most of the time, when you're in the same house he is or whatever,he's up reading and that's why I learned to have my own life.We were two parallel lines, but very connected when he was open to connecting.And you – are you responsible for Astrid?Well, yeah.I mean, well, I'll tell you.I'll tell you.I call her Aya.That's a term of endearment.You call her what?Aya.Aya.It's a term of endearment.When I was singing at the French Cafe in Omaha,Aya was the maid of the year, the woman that Matt used to adore.She is a very helping, giving person.Between sets, she would always bring me tea and we'd sit and talkand we became very good friends.And Astrid is happiest when she is doing something for somebody else.She just made that way.She's really a good soul.So then when I moved to San Francisco, I mean, it would have been all rightfor some other person, but Warren can't find the light switchand it's probably my fault, but I don't take all the fault for that.And he'd call me up and say,Susan O., where is the so-and-so?I can't find – and by looking, can I tell you a funny story?It will explain everything.Yeah, Susan knows what story I'm going to tell youbecause it's our funny family story because it illustrates everything.One time years ago when the kids were little, I was feeling really sick.I had the flu.So I lay down on the bed and I said to Warren,will you get me a pan or something from the kitchen?I may not get to the bathroom.I feel so sick.He said, okay.So he travels down to the kitchen and I hear this bang, biff, boom, banglike a five-course meal was being bit.
OtherAnd he comes up and he puts down a colander.That's not what you needed.No.He brings me a colander and I looked at it and I said,look, honey, this has holes in it.See all the holes?Oh, oh, okay.So he ran down, all this banging and everything.He comes up and he puts the colander on a cookie sheet.Okay.I don't need to tell you much more, do I?No, you got it.This is a man.So he needs help.This is a man that needed help.He needs help.So then I called Austin.I said, Austin, will you take one, make him some soup,go over there and look after him because he's not going to make it.I mean, he's different than a lot of guys because we see each other all the timeand we do things, but he just can't, no, he can't.Function.Function, yeah.So she went over and stayed.Yeah, and stayed.She's done me a great favor, let me tell you.She took care of your man for you.She did.And she takes great care of him.And he appreciates it and I appreciate it.She's a wonderful person.And they go out to dinner and everything.Yeah, they just do.He's a companion.They do what they do, you know.I mean, I don't go to most things in Omahabecause I think Austin lives there with him and that's for her to do.And then we do all kinds of things.Oh, when you travel with Bill Gates or when you come to New Yorkor with the children or the beach houses or all that.So that's it.Would you have changed anything about all this?About all this?Well, just the way life has been.My life?I mean, he says, I tap dance to work.Yeah.And he says, I paint with any colors I want to paint with.You've heard him say this a thousand times.He does what he wants to do.He does what he thinks he was put here to do.He does what he thinks calls on his best abilities.He has a way of keeping score.He has a way of influencing.It continues to get bigger and bigger.He's regarded as the best investor in the world.Right.That's what he always wanted to do.Right.He's got a wife that he loves.Takes care of him.Gave him self-esteem at a time and support when he needed it.Probably he's right.He wouldn't have been able to do this.It might have been a...He could have been really different, Charlie.Yeah.Yeah.That makes me very happy to know that I was an enabler for himbecause I don't think anybody could be worth more enabling.I feel very, very good about it.And when you were sick?Oh, my.When I was sick, he came out 26 weekends in a row.And my daughter, who's here, took care of me in the most stunning way.
OtherThe doctors wrote her notes and things.
Susie BuffettAnd my boys are wonderful, and I have, it's all, it's too good to be true. It's kind of scary. And as I said to Warren, you know, when I got this thing, which I would like to explain to the audience at large, that I talk the way I do because I had cancer in my mouth and it had to be removed and things are different now. You know, I feel like I couldn't, my life has been, I've had a wonderful life. And when this happened to me, I said to Warren, Look, I'm 71. It didn't happen to a child. It didn't happen to a grandchild. That, oh, that to me, and it happens all the time to little people and big people and all kinds of people, I mean age-wise. But to me it was appropriate. And I would have felt really so sad if it had been the other way around. If it had been him.
QuestionerOh, well, sure. But if it had been a child or grandchild, that's another thing. I'm an old lady. But you're looking great.
Susie BuffettThanks, I feel fine.
QuestionerYou've got all this money.
Susie BuffettYeah.
QuestionerI mean, you alone have got all this money. That's what it says.
Susie BuffettI know. Down here it says that.
QuestionerExactly. I mean, you, Susie, have all these billions.
Susie BuffettPardon me while I laugh, yes.
QuestionerWhat does it mean for you?
Susie BuffettWell, I'll tell you. I'm more interested in my inner self. To begin with, what matters to me is my spirit and how I live out what I value in the spiritual life in the world. That isn't, I do our foundation. That gives me great joy. I love what we do. I love doing it. Up until now, and I hope so again, I've traveled all over the world, and I meet these inspiring people. Charlie, you meet doctors and just volunteers and all kinds of human beings who have made a choice in their life to serve others. They don't have some big practice on Park Avenue. They're out there in Vietnam. I mean, my respect for that, that's the greatest respect I have for anyone. Anyway, I get to meet people like that, and I love the foundation.
QuestionerWhat criticism of Warren makes you the angriest?
Susie BuffettWell, luckily he doesn't get much criticism.
QuestionerNo, that's true. He doesn't really. There was an article in the Omaha World Herald the day of his meeting that I thought was rude and irrelevant and a lot of things. I was really mad at that. I'll tell you what it said. It said that for all of his success, that people like Gates who created a company somehow deserved a higher place in the pantheon of great business people. Because they're entrepreneurs, and Warren is not an entrepreneur.
Susie BuffettWell, everybody knows that.
QuestionerBut then it did say at the last sentence,he is the greatest investor of all time or something like that.That was very kind of them.But they were comparing apples and oranges to me,and they were making it sound bad that he wasn't an apple and he was an orange.So they're too.Depends you're a man, huh?
OtherYeah, you're not kidding.That was pretty ridiculous if that's the only way they can be critical,is to say too bad you're a lawyer instead of a doctor.I mean, that's the way I looked at it.If I'm wrong, tell me.
CharlieWell, no, I think you're right.But he recognizes that, too.He would say, sure, I didn't do this, I did that.And it's so funny.I rarely get mad about anything.But you got mad about this one.
OtherI was mad.I thought it wasn't fair.
CharlieYeah, I didn't think it was an intelligent article.Anyway, it was rude.I didn't like it.
QuestionerWhat do you think he wants his legacy to be?
OtherI think he wants his letters to be a legacy about business.You know, his annual reports.He's really written.That's his book.That's his book.That's his book.And I think he hopes that people rememberhow much he liked to talk about the ovarian lottery.He does that.And I believe that so deeply, like he does.And if he can make young people realize,I'm lucky I was just born here,and then take it a step further,and what can I do for people who aren't so lucky,and I'm helping people here,I know that means a lot to him.And you and he know that because you've amassed all this moneyand because you're going to put it in the foundation,that good work will live after you.
OtherOh, my, yes.Oh, my, yes.That is a disagreement we have.I run a foundation now.I think we should be giving more money away.I'm going to keep giving more money away.No question.But I understand why we don't, because it's business.It's not like Bill Gates.It's separated what he gives away.So we'll just give it all when the time comes.But it's all going to help people.
QuestionerYour daughter, Susie, says you call yourself a geriatric gypsy.That's right.What is that?
OtherThat means, honey, I don't stay in one place very long.And I have these wonderful grandchildren,great-grandchildren, friends, and Warren I travel with.I am a geriatric gypsy.That's what I tell people.They say, what do you do?That's my answer.A geriatric gypsy.
QuestionerYou can go anywhere you want to go in the world in comfort.
OtherYes, I can.You can see anything, buy anything, meet anybody.But, Charlie, I like going to those minus-10 hotels in India with Alan,
Otherwho I run the foundation of.It's horrible.But I like to go to places real.When I'm in Bhutan, you should have seen it there.I mean, I love that.But you know what?That doesn't mean anything important, because I'm going and coming home.I don't live there.It's not my life struggle.But when I am there, I don't want to be up here.I want to be just right there where people are,and people don't know me from anywhere.
QuestionerYou know what?
OtherWhat?
QuestionerI think you're as wise as he is smart.
WarrenOh, Charlie, what a compliment.Thank you.Wow, I'll live on that the rest of my life.
OtherSusan Buffett, our sympathy and love for Warren and her children.Thank you for joining us.We'll see you next time.